i agree, and that point was in the article -
ECT Challenge for modern day signs and wonders adherents
- Thread starter musterion
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i agree, and that point was in the article -
elohiym
Well-known member
Come on. I'm trying to show interest in the discussion and contribute to your thread. If you can't give me an example of the gift of words of knowledge, why should I believe you? Typically when I ask for an example, it's because I know the person cannot give me an example, so I will be impressed if you can.
musterion
Well-known member
The issue here, I remind you, is the Acts-era miraculous sign gift of healing all manner of sickness and even death, at will, along with the other sign gifts. Not going to the doctor.
elohiym
Well-known member
Okay, I get that; but do you believe God heals through doctors?
musterion
Well-known member
Should I?
musterion
Well-known member
I believe He can and does heal directly, if and when He chooses to do so. We have zero guarantees that He will and no promises to claim for it, however.
Is that your way of saying "By His stripes we are healed" = guaranteed physical healing? Because if so, then no, we don't agree.
elohiym
Well-known member
Examples of the supernatural gift of 'the word of knowledge' which was evident during the Acts of the Apostles when the Messianic Kingdom was still being offered to Israel but gradually ceased as there was a persistent refusal and Israel fell and was relegated equal with the nations:
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Act 21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
Those who claim to be baptized into the Body of Christ while denying the power of Christ in His Body, are not baptized into the real Body of Christ at all.
The first members of the Body of Christ began on the day of Pentecost as Peter said--
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
The disciples of Christ were believers 3 years before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit and many today are in the same situation from whence came the first Judas.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Believers should move on, and not invent doctrines which will lock them out of the Kingdom of God.
LA
The first members of the Body of Christ began on the day of Pentecost as Peter said--
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
The disciples of Christ were believers 3 years before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit and many today are in the same situation from whence came the first Judas.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Believers should move on, and not invent doctrines which will lock them out of the Kingdom of God.
LA
I have only just seen this thread...I do not always read anti-gift threads.
Here's looking at me.
I think I am not more emotional than the average English person [English folk are more emotional than people think] and I pin everything on scripture. I feel insulted by that remark.
It all centres around this scripture "whether there be prophecies they shall fail, whether there be tongues they shall cease, whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away. For we know in part and we prophecy in part
Butt when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be done away."
You have to show that knowledge has vanished and you have to show that the perfect has come.
Or do we still see only in part? Are we as individuals perfect? or are we growing in grace and knowledge of the truth? The Paul's letters and the bible cannot be represented as that which is perfect, Paul's word written down are not more perfect than when he first spoke them.
But if you say the bible containing Paul's letters are perfect...well that is where we learn about the gifts, it is that word which exhorts us to earnestly desire the gifts, it is Paul who would in his letters that "ye did all speak in tongues." That is what we are going by.
All else is speculation.
Incidently I got the full whack when I was first saved in my own home when I did not know what to expect, in fact I expected nothing.
I did not learn the Pentecostal experience, I received the Pentecostal experience. And what I received fits the bible very well.
Here's looking at me.
I think I am not more emotional than the average English person [English folk are more emotional than people think] and I pin everything on scripture. I feel insulted by that remark. It all centres around this scripture "whether there be prophecies they shall fail, whether there be tongues they shall cease, whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away. For we know in part and we prophecy in part
Butt when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be done away."
You have to show that knowledge has vanished and you have to show that the perfect has come.
Or do we still see only in part? Are we as individuals perfect? or are we growing in grace and knowledge of the truth? The Paul's letters and the bible cannot be represented as that which is perfect, Paul's word written down are not more perfect than when he first spoke them.
But if you say the bible containing Paul's letters are perfect...well that is where we learn about the gifts, it is that word which exhorts us to earnestly desire the gifts, it is Paul who would in his letters that "ye did all speak in tongues." That is what we are going by.
All else is speculation.
Incidently I got the full whack when I was first saved in my own home when I did not know what to expect, in fact I expected nothing.
I did not learn the Pentecostal experience, I received the Pentecostal experience. And what I received fits the bible very well.
Cross Reference
New member
Mustardgas doesn't want to discuss. He just wants to accuse to support his unbelief. He needs continual irrational mental gymnastics to fill the emptiness in his head.