Why do you believe scripture is in error?
Can trinitarians also be monotheists?
- Thread starter the589
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Why do you believe scripture is in error?
It should also be inquired is the Father eternal....yes
Is the Son eternal...yes
Is the Holy Spirit eternal...yes.
This means they were one with each other before the creation of the heavens and the earth and before the angelic host.
Nihilo claims scripture does not agree with his beliefs.
He says the Son is not the holy Spirit.
But what does scripture say?
Jesus said, "I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you." (John 14:18)
Why would anyone not believe that?
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name" (John 14:26)
Do you believe the "Helper" is the holy Spirit?
What is the Greek word that was translated Helper?
The parakletos is the holy Spirit.
The parakletos is an advocate.
"And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 2:1)
What is the Greek word for Advocate?
The Greek word is parakletos.
It's plain the parakletos is Jesus Christ, the holy Spirit.
Do you believe scripture?
He says the Son is not the holy Spirit.
But what does scripture say?
Jesus said, "I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you." (John 14:18)
Why would anyone not believe that?
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name" (John 14:26)
Do you believe the "Helper" is the holy Spirit?
What is the Greek word that was translated Helper?
"G3875
παράκλητος
paraklētos
par-ak'-lay-tos
An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter." (Strong's)
παράκλητος
paraklētos
par-ak'-lay-tos
An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter." (Strong's)
The parakletos is the holy Spirit.
The parakletos is an advocate.
"And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 2:1)
What is the Greek word for Advocate?
The Greek word is parakletos.
It's plain the parakletos is Jesus Christ, the holy Spirit.
Do you believe scripture?
Why do people try to make it so difficult. God created everything. The Father is the only true God. Jesus said so, Paul said so. Why don't you just believe Jesus and Paul.
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
I don't. You're wrong.
You're wrong. That's it.
An opinion not supported by scripture is just an opinion.
You have posted no scriptures to prove your point.
So you opinion is worth less than nothing to me.
I've had these discussions in the past.
From what I have seen, trinitarians do consider themselves monotheists. Yet to outsiders the idea appears absurd, and all of the semantic exercises given to support it just don't make sense. Often the discussion ends with somebody explaining that it is a mystery, and humans just can't understand it. Beameup has already said something along those lines.
From what I have seen, trinitarians do consider themselves monotheists. Yet to outsiders the idea appears absurd, and all of the semantic exercises given to support it just don't make sense. Often the discussion ends with somebody explaining that it is a mystery, and humans just can't understand it. Beameup has already said something along those lines.
And this is just an opinion too.
Post the scripture that says I have to post scriptures to prove a point. See? Your thinking is circular. That's logically fallacious.
We all have the capacity for sarcasm too.
I have no trouble with the Trinity, either understanding Him or explaining Him. The difficulty is in those who refuse to accept Who He is.
It's not a mystery, it's just people who don't accept NT scripture.
I've given scriptures that have been rejected.
So? I've given you scriptures that you've rejected, like those that positively identify who we know today as the Catholic Church with the Church who appears within the New Testament. That's been proven, with plenty of scriptures, and it is this Church who teaches the Trinity, and so we have firmer footing than any biblical argument for any position that defies what the Church from the Bible actually believes and teaches unambiguously and with full authority.
ttruscott
Well-known member
I believe in the Trinity and ONE GOD.
A thing is defined by its dna. A peach tree has only peach tree dna, no cat dna. In the case of spirits, they are defined by their attributes which is analogous to their dna.
The Attributes of Divinity: (in short, ie, not limited to this list)
- eternally existent, ie, not created nor ending
- all knowing
- all powerful
- perfectly loving
- perfectly righteous
- etc.
If a being has the divine attributes they are Divine. The Father has these attributes and is Divine. The Son has these attributes and is Divine. The Holy Spirit has these attributes and is Divine.
It is also a characteristic of the Divine Attributes that any person with the divine attributes enjoys a total Unity with other persons that have the divine attributes, a unity that is so total that the word ONE is a perfectly proper description. Three divine persons in a Unity of ONE GOD.
Deut 6:4 Hear, H8085 O Israel: H3478 The LORD H3068 our God H430 is one H259 LORD: H3068
ONE: Strong’s H259 - 'echad
Strong’s Definitions
אֶחָד ʼechâd, ekh-awd'; a numeral from H258; properly, united, i.e. one; etc…but also some (7x), miscellaneous (87x), one (number)
The DNA of physical things separates them from others while the Divine Attributes joins all with the attributes into a perfect Divine Unity.
What seems obvious to you is obscure to others. That doesn't necessarily mean that they "refuse to accept". It may mean that your concept just doesn't make sense to others. It certainly doesn't make sense to me. A concept that only believers can understand is a mystery...
So far, so good. Three cats have common DNA. So they are all cats, even though there are three of them. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all Gods, since all three have the essential divine attributes.
This is where the mystery comes in. Also, why don't the Roman or Greek gods fit into this scheme?
"Echad" means exactly the same as "one" in English.
Here's that mysterious quality of divinity again.
OK, but Trinitarians claim to be monotheists, and non-trinitarians should respect that claim.
So you don't understand it, and call it a mystery. The words I'm using work, when I explain Him. You cannot show that they don't, because you're missing the forest for the trees.