Can trinitarians also be monotheists?
- Thread starter the589
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I have never met a Trinitarian that could explain these verses. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Then Jesus said He was ascending to His Father and my Father, and to His God and my God. Even Paul said for us there is only one God the Father.
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
glorydaz
Well-known member
Those verses are the Shema, of course, and Christians believe it's true. The Lord our God is one Lord...which Paul repeats and expounds on here.
They refer to the LORD GOD and the Spirit of God all throughout the OT...showing the unity and plurality of God many times. When the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, the Godhead was more fully revealed, and there were those who beheld His glory. John 1:14
Indeed, John the Baptist was the voice crying in the wilderness saying "Prepare a highway for our God."
Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
So it is true that in essence Christians are(should be) monotheists? It's becoming wierd when i dont see this love for G-d in Catholics or Christian denominations but i see it in Judaism or Islam. People are quick to call for idolatry or polytheism when trinitiarian doctrine is involved. Squeaky points out 'not so sure' yet even new testament doctrine teaches monotheism.
My personal (trinitarian) interpetation involves the book and birth of Samuel as he was born to Hanna who G-d healed her womb, you can say he(Samuel) is born of G-d. Now Jesus was born of virgin birth and also by G-d he is born of G-d or more, a son of G-d, so I can say, he is the son of G-d, the messiah. But it gets dark when people call me a polytheist for it yet i believe in the G-d of Abraham.
Even putting the thread up here you see the insecurity and unsure of so few responses
This problem is just one of many that arise when the term God is used. In understanding the term Elohim meaning Mighty, all Powerful and Almighty, it removes the problem. The question then becomes. Is the Father Almighty...YES Is The Son Almighty...YES Is The Holy Spirit Almighty...YES.
Add to this the absolute fact that only Elohim is Holy and then ask, Is The Father Holy...YES Is The Son Holy...YES Is The Holy Spirit Holy...YES.
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Yes but people call this polytheism. They either say the sp-rit is not G-d or Jesus is not G-d so it is idolatry. Yet we say they all agree. So is it still monotheism?
I can say Jesus is born of G-d, born of a virgin, he is the son of G-d. I can say the sp-rit is of G-d, and i can say the G-d of Abraham is one G-d. But muslims or J-ws they will call me a polytheist for it..
When i say Jesus is the only begotten son of G-d, they will say G-d has no sons. But yet even Samuel was born of G-d. In the same case Jesus was born, yet of virgin birth, so he is not just born of G-d, but he is the son of G-d. But they will say this is still untrue G-d has no sons. And how does this not make me/us a monotheist(s)?
The vital thing is not what you are called but what are you? Are you a converted, regenerate and repentant sinner? Or are you just looking to satisfy your curiosity? In the former state you will receive the ability to ask questions and then receive the answers you need as opposed to the answers you think you need. If the latter applies then I would advise you to drop all religious inclinations and get on with whatever you find to do.
The term "God" refers to a type of being in the same way that "human" refers to a type of being.
The Most High is the only true God. He is without parents.
As the true God he indwells his Son Jesus who in turn indwells the Father's children.
Without Christ's Spirit a person is not Spirit.
The Most High is the only true God. He is without parents.
As the true God he indwells his Son Jesus who in turn indwells the Father's children.
Without Christ's Spirit a person is not Spirit.
So I guess it's true that monotheism is lost here or do you consider yourself a monotheist still? Alot of people struggle with this they feel uncomfortable toward monotheism and the commandments regarding trinitarian doctrine. I guess my personal interpetation above is as far as it gets for me for trinitarian doctrine.
It's interesting to hear so many different perspectives of the trinity but the question was how do you feel toward monotheism or do you consider yourself a monotheist?
LORD GOD ALMIGHTY AND ALSO Lord JESUS CHRIST=LORD Lord
Ps 110:1
1 The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
(NKJ)
Matt 25:1-12
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 "Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 "Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,
4 "but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 "But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'
7 "Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8 "And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
9 "But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'
12 "But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'
Luke 13:25-27
25 "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 "then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 "But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Luke 6:46
46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?
Matt 25:31-46
31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 'for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 'I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 'When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 'Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 'for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 'I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Luke 13:28
28 "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
Heb 10:10
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Rom 14:9
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Rom 14:11
11 For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
Jude 1:4
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matt 11:27
27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
(NKJ)
XXXXX Lord is a title of spiritual authority over the earth. The LORD God held it alone until Jesus proved Himself to God the Father. Then God the Father gave the title of Lord to Jesus when Jesus received His Ministry. God is the title of spiritual authority over the universe which only God the Father holds. But even Jesus will hold that title at His second coming. God gave Jesus the title of Lord, not LORD. There is only one LORD, and there is only one Lord. And the Father is the only God.
Ps 110:1
1 The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
(NKJ)
Matt 25:1-12
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 "Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 "Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,
4 "but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 "But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'
7 "Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8 "And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
9 "But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'
12 "But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'
Luke 13:25-27
25 "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 "then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 "But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Luke 6:46
46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?
Matt 25:31-46
31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 'for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 'I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 'When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 'Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 'for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 'I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Luke 13:28
28 "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
Heb 10:10
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Rom 14:9
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Rom 14:11
11 For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
Jude 1:4
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matt 11:27
27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
(NKJ)
XXXXX Lord is a title of spiritual authority over the earth. The LORD God held it alone until Jesus proved Himself to God the Father. Then God the Father gave the title of Lord to Jesus when Jesus received His Ministry. God is the title of spiritual authority over the universe which only God the Father holds. But even Jesus will hold that title at His second coming. God gave Jesus the title of Lord, not LORD. There is only one LORD, and there is only one Lord. And the Father is the only God.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son, and the Father is not the Holy Spirit, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. The name of God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father generates the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, and from the Son.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yes, there is only ONE GOD, and that's the meaning of monotheist, correct?
He is just bigger and more complicated than most people can comprehend.
Of course he is the holy Spirit. How do you think Mary became pregnant?
"After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:18)
Jesus acknowledged the Most High as his Father.
Of course he is the holy Spirit.
"And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1)
Jesus is our Helper.
Nope.
Nope.
10Create in me a clean heart, O G-d; and renew a right spirit within me. 11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy sp-rit from me. 12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. 14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O G-d, thou G-d of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
This is the prayer of a regenerate man.
That was David. Isaiah also gives more insight to the sp-rit of G-d. Some say this is also messianic prophecy (Jesus) and also Jesse is related to prophecy in Genesis, complicated prophecy related to the tribe of naptali and all of that. But theologically this gives some understanding of the sp-rit
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2And the sp-rit of the L-RD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the L-RD; 3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the L-RD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.