Can Man's Sinful Adamic Nature Be Rehabilitated?

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Many believe that it can be. Some Catholics believe that by the grace of God working in a persons life and through the indwelling Holy Spirit, they can live a life of perfect obedience to God's Holy Law and be justified. This is why they are continually going to mass to be like Jesus.

If that were true, that we could become righteous by what we do, then Jesus lived and died in vain.

This is one reason why some people believe that Catholicism is anti-Christ. It does away with the substituionary and representative work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf, that justifies us and reconciles us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Christians are called to live their lives before God as sinners. Saved sinners. This is why Paul refered to himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Paul struggled with sin just like we do, "For the good that I would do, I don't do it, but the evil which I would not do, that I do" Romans 7:19. It is the Holy Spirit working in the Christians life that convicts him of sin. If you don't see yourself as a needy sinner, you may not have the Holy Spirit.

We are always pressing towards the "high calling" that is in Jesus Christ, but we never arrive, we always fall short of the righteousness of Christ. This is why Paul said, "As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his sinless life, he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. That was not enough, something had to be done about our sins, "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

When God accepted Jesus into heaven we were accepted in him. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
chair said:
There is no "sinful Adamic nature".
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I totally agree with Chair.

Its not a nature that got passed down. it was the sin snowball gained momentum, resulting in death.

Adam and Eve had a nature to sin before they sinned otherwise they would not have sinned in the first place. Nothing changed

In fact it was God unleashing Satan that caused them to sin. They were doing fine with their human nature till then.

Every person with free will and ignorance WILL sin, and hence will die. Its not in the nature, its in the logic.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
iouae said:
I totally agree with Chair.

Its not a nature that got passed down. it was the sin snowball gained momentum, resulting in death.

Adam and Eve had a nature to sin before they sinned otherwise they would not have sinned in the first place. Nothing changed

In fact it was God unleashing Satan that caused them to sin. They were doing fine with their human nature till then.

Every person with free will and ignorance WILL sin, and hence will die. Its not in the nature, its in the logic.
Click to expand...

Why, then, did God need to give the believer a new nature by which to walk, as Paul tells us, if the believer's old nature really wasn't that bad? Why tell the believer to be putting off the old man at all?
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
iouae said:
I totally agree with Chair.

Its not a nature that got passed down. it was the sin snowball gained momentum, resulting in death.

Adam and Eve had a nature to sin before they sinned otherwise they would not have sinned in the first place. Nothing changed

In fact it was God unleashing Satan that caused them to sin. They were doing fine with their human nature till then.

Every person with free will and ignorance WILL sin, and hence will die. Its not in the nature, its in the logic.
Click to expand...

Had a nature?

Adam's will was subject to vanity.

He was not deceived, which shows just how vain he was.:think:
 
D

disturbo

BANNED
Banned
1Mind1Spirit said:
Had a nature?

Adam's will was subject to vanity.

He was not deceived, which shows just how vain he was.:think:
Click to expand...

iouae said,

Every person with free will and ignorance WILL sin, and hence will die. Its not in the nature, its in the logic.
Click to expand...

I agree with Musterion on this one.

There would be NO LOGIC if there were no NATURE from which to derive it!
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
musterion said:
Why, then, did God need to give the believer a new nature by which to walk, as Paul tells us, if the believer's old nature really wasn't that bad? Why tell the believer to be putting off the old man at all?
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From vanity to hope.

Who will deliver me from this body of death?

The same one who subjected us to it.

The Father of our Lord Yashua Messiah. :)
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
musterion said:
Why, then, did God need to give the believer a new nature by which to walk, as Paul tells us, if the believer's old nature really wasn't that bad? Why tell the believer to be putting off the old man at all?
Click to expand...

Adam never "fell". Adam had to put off the old man (temptation to eat) but he did not. Man was created to put off the old man.

When you give a man free will, he HAS to tame that will and bring it into subjection to Christ. The "old man" is what God created. It is not some fallen state. It is man who just naturally wants to exercise his free will, and in so doing sometimes does good, and sometimes evil
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Adam was a person that was created with an innocent nature.

When he sinned against God he lost his innocent nature and became a sinner.

As our representative he brought sin upon us.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men" Romans 5:18.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Adam was created very good, fully functional (in mature form, including his mental faculties), and was not deceived. Since he could choose to eat from any tree in the garden, save one (Genesis 2:16), and chose to sin, he possessed free will. His capacities functioned the way God intended them to function, although not for the purposes of wrongdoing. Had God forced Adam not to sin, then Adam would not have been free. In other words, the dire consequences would not have followed had God been the cause of Adam’s sin. It follows that since Adam was not forced or influenced to sin by either God or a sinful nature, he sinned of his own free will. Thus to [deny free will is to] attribute sin to the Creator [which] means two things: (1) to blaspheme against Him, and (2) to acquit Adam of his sin and responsibility.
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D

disturbo

BANNED
Banned
Robert Pate said:
Adam was a person that was created with an innocent nature.

When he sinned against God he lost his innocent nature and became a sinner.

As our representative he brought sin upon us.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men" Romans 5:18.
Click to expand...

...and it really is that simple!
 
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