You're a heretical ultra hyper-Calvinist who blames God for creating all sins.
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
You're a heretical ultra hyper-Calvinist who blames God for creating all sins.
The Bible teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. This means that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
Isn't it just wonderful.
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach salvation by works, by what a person does which discounts Christ!
Christ cannot be discounted because he is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 4:14.
beloved57
Well-known member
You discount the death of Christ every day, you teach that people He died for shall die in their sins , the very sins He died for already!
Calling on the name of the Lord is not works. It is however, the thing to do if you want to enter into life.
Nanja
Well-known member
Yes it is a work one does!
Paul warned about those like yourself, who preach a false gospel of works Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 1:8!
Before a person can call upon the Lord for Salvation he must first be made
Spiritually Alive / Born Again / Quickened by the Holy Spirit!
How do we know that?
Scripture attests to the fact that those who are in the flesh can't please God Rom. 8:8 by anything they do,
which includes calling upon His Name!
Ps. 80:17-18
17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
So those Christ died for call upon Him as a reaction, and as a result, of their being made Spiritually Alive,
realizing what He has done for them!
~~~~~
The Bible teaches that those who hear the Gospel and believe the Gospel are quickened by the Holy Spirit.
Hear what Paul says, "This only would I learn of you, Did you receive the Holy Spirit (Quickened) by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (Hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
Old Testament scripture should not be used to prove doctrine.
Those that are in the flesh in Romans 8:8 could be carnal Christians.
Regardless, no one receives the Holy Spirit without hearing and believing the Gospel that has reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.
musterion
Well-known member
He doesn't blame God for that, he compliments Him for it.
Lon
Well-known member
And it doesn't matter if it were a work, all who do will be saved: end of work. It is an egg before the chicken kinda thing (I think).
It is perspective:
Calvinist: "Not a work, God enabled"
Romans 10:13
Dispensationalist: "Not a work, what I did."
Romans 10:13
Imho (and open to input) it is an argument about 'how' not that it didn't happen.
Romans 10:13 1 Corinthians 12:3
ttruscott
Well-known member
No sir, the cross is there as the fact of her belief, the focus of her belief/faith that GOD made her believe/have faith in even if she is wrong about our creation and our fall.
Because she is under the power of the cross by her election, she is able to have her enslavement to sin ended and to be brought belief, not being condemned already.
Lon
Well-known member
In a nutshell, because we believe Christ did the work, and because He knows ahead of time who will respond, we say God, in applying grace, chose for us, because it is all His work. The Dispensationalist too, believes it is all God's work, but that he/she has to 'step into' it as it were and make a decision. There is no question we all called upon the name of the Lord, in my mind, for those of us who have. Romans 10:10,11 and 1st Corinithians 12:3
Is it not possible that God does not know who will respond to the Gospel? Is it not possible that God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God has the power to limit himself if he so chose to do so.
It appears that the angels in heaven do not have forknowledge, Luke 15:10. There is a lot of randomness in the New Testament. The sower of the seed did not know where the seed would fall. He just threw it up in the air with no knowledge as to where it would fall.
Brother Ducky
New member
Can one know they are saved? I am thinking in terms of were saved, am saved and will be saved.
glorydaz
Well-known member
But the Bible doesn't say that. It's a matter of a previous known experience like here...not something known from eternity past.
Romans 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
Yes !! Ephesians 1:13, 14
beloved57
Well-known member
Blasphemous comment about the All knowing and All wise God!
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes it's a work, something that a person does !
beloved57
Well-known member
Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 !
Ben Masada
New member
You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved.
You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved.
1 - The expression "You must already be saved to get saved" is possible but only under the context of universal salvation; that's the kind of salvation Jesus referred to in John 4:22 as the salvation that comes from the Jews. That's also the kind of salvation Abraham mentioned in Genesis 18:32.
2 - And for this item above, you are mistaken Robert. We have not only the Prophets against that method according to Jeremiah 31:30 and Ezekiel 18:20 but also Jesus himself who said that for such, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)
You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved.
1 - The expression "You must already be saved to get saved" is possible but only under the context of universal salvation; that's the kind of salvation Jesus referred to in John 4:22 as the salvation that comes from the Jews. That's also the kind of salvation Abraham mentioned in Genesis 18:32.
2 - And for this item above, you are mistaken Robert. We have not only the Prophets against that method according to Jeremiah 31:30 and Ezekiel 18:20 but also Jesus himself who said that for such, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)