Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
beloved57
Well-known member
Nothing about it not being the Elect World!
So you build your doctrine on what is not in the Bible?
beloved57
Well-known member
The Elect World is mentioned many many times, Israel !
You will not find the term "Elect World" anywhere in the Bible.
beloved57
Well-known member
Israel !
Brother Ducky
New member
Like the re-imputation of sin, frinstance?
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes, he tells that Lie, but God will not impute sin to those whom He imputed their sins to Christ to die for Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Pates lie says the Lord will impute sin !
God can and will impute sin, Romans 4:8.
You and John Calvin will find that out.
You are not one of the blessed. You are way outside of the faith.
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach lies !
Nanja
Well-known member
flintstoned
New member
The sower is the one who prepares the soil so that it is able to successfully receive the seed and produce crops. In other words, it is God who enables the elect (by regenerating our hearts) to successfully receive the word and produce good fruit. There is nothing the soil can do to itself to be able to receive the seed. The soil cannot change its depth, or weed itself, or water itself. The sower is the one who prepares the soil. It is God who gives the elect fertile ground/good soil for implanting his seed (the word of god). He gives them ears to hear, and a heart to understand the gospel. The seed that is implanted in them is imperishable.
In biblical times, farmers “broadcast” seed by hand over large areas to distribute the seed. Sure, some of the seed might fall on rocky or thorny places and even temporarily grow for a while. But the seed was never intended for these areas, and because the soil was not prepared for it, it will eventually die.
flintstoned
New member
Election isn't a "promise." To elect means to "choose" and God made already made his choice before the foundation of the world, regarding who he would eventually bring to salvation.
So God created some people to be born and go to hell ?
flintstoned
New member
How does ANYONE know they are saved? You have to believe first! If you actually believe with your heart, then this is evidence that God had done a work on your heart which enabled you to believe (which means God had elected you before the foundation of the world).
Belief (from the heart...not mere mental assent), is evidence that you are one of the elect. Calvinists do not believe that "belief" is a work. It is only due to the work of God that we can believe in our hearts. Our belief is like an automatic reaction to the work He has done in our hearts. The only time that a Calvinist references believing to a "work" is in regards to those who say that they just decided one day to get "saved" so made the choice of their own will to just believe in Jesus and say a prayer, etc., and they got themselves saved. To suggest that you can take the reins and just will yourself to believe without God having changed your heart first, and thereby trying to take credit for your own salvation, is equating belief to a work that you just have to "perform" in order to be saved, rather than as a result (non-work) of a changed heart.
flintstoned
New member
God created ALL people knowing that they would sin and deservedly go to hell. It is only by his grace that he decided to spare a people for himself. Nobody would be saved if it weren't for God's grace. How would justice be served if God just saved everybody and nobody paid for their sin? If the President, for instance, pardons a criminal and they are spared from having to be imprisoned, does this mean that all criminals should be pardoned? Is it unjust to send criminals to jail, just because a few are blessed with a pardoning?
So why does it even matter? Either way, with God's omniscience, He knows where we will end up before he ever creates us. So, according to non-Calvinist belief systems, why would he still create those people that he knows will end up in hell? What would be the purpose in that? Either way, the majority of the world is still going to hell, with only believers being saved (regardless of whether you think that belief is generated by the work of God or by your own self, the result is still the same). If it wasn't for God's grace, to determine beforehand that he would save ANY, we would ALL be destined for destruction.
You are assuming that everyone was born righteous and without sin and then they sinned and brought judgment on themselves.
The Bible teaches no such thing. We are all sinners without works, we are all born into sin, Psalm 51:5. It is not our fault that we are sinners, its Adam's fault, Romans 5:12.
Therefore God would be unjust to condemn someone to hell because they are sinners. People will go to hell not because they are sinners, but because they do not believe in Jesus Christ.
No one has been predestinated to hell because of sin. They will go to hell because they do not believe, which means that salvation is an individual thing and is of the will.
fishrovmen
Active member
So why does your idol need to impute forgiven and destroyed sins back to people if those sins cant even condemn them? Your views are getting even stranger!!
You will never understand spiritual things until you come to Christ as a repentant sinner and trust in him alone to save you.
"Jesus is Lord" he is the Lord over ALL THINGS, even sin. If you are not "IN CHRIST" it is very possible that your sins will be imputed to you and you will be condemned, Romans 4:8.