Calvinism and the word "Predestination"

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
Its not going to do you any good to fight against Gods Word .Sure being predestined to to the image and Glory of Christ has everything to do with going to heaven Rom 8:29-30.

And men were ordained, destined to condemnation Jude 1:4

4 [FONT="]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who [B]were before of old ordained to this condemnation,[/B] ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][L For][/FONT][FONT="] Some people have ·secretly entered [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][sneaked in; infiltrated; wormed their way into][/FONT][FONT="] your group [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][2 Pet. 2:1][/FONT][FONT="]. Long ago ·the prophets wrote about these [B]people who will be judged guilty [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][their condemnation was written about/predetermined][/FONT][/B][FONT="][B].[/B] They are ·against God [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][ungodly][/FONT][FONT="] and have ·changed [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][perverted; distorted][/FONT][FONT="] the grace of our God [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][C with its freedom from legalistic rules][/FONT][FONT="] into ·a reason for sexual sin [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][L debauchery; licentiousness; immorality][/FONT][FONT="]. They also ·refuse to accept [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#555555][FONT="][deny; have turned against][/FONT][FONT="] our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.EXB[/FONT]
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Show me the sentence where it says that someone was predestinated to heaven or to hell.

Like this, "And God predestinated Pharaoh to hell". Where is it, blind one?
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Nope, they are lost because like you they have rejected God's great free Gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ.
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It's only those who were Chosen to Salvation before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-7 to have forgiveness of sins according to the riches of God's Grace; not by anything they do or do not do, but solely according to His Purpose and Grace given them before the world began:

2 Tim. 1:8-9
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Rom. 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

2 Tim. 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
ttruscott

ttruscott

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The word "Predestinate" or "Predestinated" only appears in the New Testament 4 times and is not found in the Old Testament at all. In Strong's Concordance it is word #G4309. In the Greek it means to, determine before, ordain, predestinate. In the English it means to foreordain by divine decree or purpose.

Predestinate: Romans 8:29, 30.
Predestinated: Ephesians 1:5 also Ephesians 1:11.

Here is how the words "Predestinate" and "Predestinated are used in scripture. I have isolated the words "predestinate" and "predestinated" so as to get a better understanding of what the writer was really trying to say in these scriptures

"Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29.
"Whom he did predestinate them he also called" Romans 8:30.
"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:5.
"Being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will" Ephesians 1:11.

No where in the Bible does it say that God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.
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If you cannot find any reference that anyone who is conformed to the image of his Son Jesus Christ, called by the Holy Spirit, adopted children of Jesus Christ according to the purpose of God's will ever face judgment or be banished to hell then I suggest that it is a correct conclusion to decide that they are going to heaven by predestination!

Do we have to have proof that people who jump in the lake will get wet? Does it have to be written in scripture that they who jump into water will get wet or we cannot beleive they will get wet??? Of course anyone predestined to these things will end in heaven and of course predestining them to these things is the same as predestination to heaven!

And even if the people can't man up and admit that to NOT predestine people to be "conformed to the image of his Son Jesus Christ, called by the Holy Spirit, adopted children of Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of God's will" is to ipso facto predestinate them to hell, the language is certain.

The reason that there is no scripture that says that is because that is not what God does. It is not wise to take a few scriptures and try to build a doctrine to try and prove that God predestines people to heaven or to hell.
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First you prove HE does predestine people then you refuse to accept that and call the idea foolish...

May I guess that the objection to HIS predestining us to heaven being the sole reason for our entering the heavenly state means that for no reason HE does not predestine all people and the passed over ones go to hell for no reason except by HIS arbitrary choice...? This is a wrong understanding of the doctrine of predestination.

HE had a very good reason to choose some to be HIS Bride and to reject others and that reason was our own free will decison to accept HIM as our GOD and to put our faith in HIS promise of election and salvation... Those who REJECTED HIM as their GOD and put their faith in the belief HE was a false god and his promises of salvation were the lies of a false god by their own free will were passed by for election to heaven as an impossibility.

Those who by their free will accepted HIM as their GOD, HE predestined to heaven...
Those who rejected HIM as their deity HE passed over for election to heaven since they hated the idea of heaven enough to take the chance of hell rather than any chance to end in heaven.

HE did NOT predestine our fate. We chose our fate by our free will. HE predestined our LIVES here on earth after we became debased by choosing sin to conform our lives to our previous free will decisions to accept HIS promises of salvation and election.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
ttruscott said:
If you cannot find any reference that anyone who is conformed to the image of his Son Jesus Christ, called by the Holy Spirit, adopted children of Jesus Christ according to the purpose of God's will ever face judgment or be banished to hell then I suggest that it is a correct conclusion to decide that they are going to heaven by predestination!

Do we have to have proof that people who jump in the lake will get wet? Does it have to be written in scripture that they who jump into water will get wet or we cannot beleive they will get wet??? Of course anyone predestined to these things will end in heaven and of course predestining them to these things is the same as predestination to heaven!

And even if the people can't man up and admit that to NOT predestine people to be "conformed to the image of his Son Jesus Christ, called by the Holy Spirit, adopted children of Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of God's will" is to ipso facto predestinate them to hell, the language is certain.

First you prove HE does predestine people then you refuse to accept that and call the idea foolish...

May I guess that the objection to HIS predestining us to heaven being the sole reason for our entering the heavenly state means that for no reason HE does not predestine all people and the passed over ones go to hell for no reason except by HIS arbitrary choice...? This is a wrong understanding of the doctrine of predestination.

HE had a very good reason to choose some to be HIS Bride and to reject others and that reason was our own free will decison to accept HIM as our GOD and to put our faith in HIS promise of election and salvation... Those who REJECTED HIM as their GOD and put their faith in the belief HE was a false god and his promises of salvation were the lies of a false god by their own free will were passed by for election to heaven as an impossibility.

Those who by their free will accepted HIM as their GOD, HE predestined to heaven...
Those who rejected HIM as their deity HE passed over for election to heaven since they hated the idea of heaven enough to take the chance of hell rather than any chance to end in heaven.

HE did NOT predestine our fate. We chose our fate by our free will. HE predestined our LIVES here on earth after we became debased by choosing sin to conform our lives to our previous free will decisions to accept HIS promises of salvation and election.
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The only one that was predestinated was Jesus Christ. He was predestinated to be the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2. All that believe and have faith in him are the elect. God choses no one to be saved or lost. If he did that he would be unjust.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
Show me the sentence where it says that someone was predestinated to heaven or to hell.

Like this, "And God predestinated Pharaoh to hell". Where is it, blind one?
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So, in your mind scripture has to use the exact words you think it should use to be true? And yet you have claimed on many occasions that God re-imputes sin to some. Any verse for that?
 
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