Calling all Open Theists for Feedback

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I am in agreement, except for the part where "Open Theism" doesn't hold.

I am in agreement, except for the part where "Open Theism" doesn't hold.

Isaiah 45:5 Act 7:48-51 Colossians 1:16-20

Finally!!! A Scriptural Address! Thank you! You are the first!

5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,​

and...

48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’​

I agree with this fully and in my explanation... I write this.

"Two Trees...

But that would mean that the Father was the "Architect" and the Son was the "Builder"! Yup! The Architect Planned Sincerely and Perfectly and the "Builder" Built Perfectly! No Right hand hiding it's intentions from the Left hand... GOD is never a LEFT HAND! God is ONE!"

To further expound with words I have already written...

"We, that are TriUnitarians believe God is Model (Une) and Simultaneously Three (Tri)...

Father (Spirit/Mind)
Son (Body/Creator Physical)
Holy Spirit (Soul of God)

Is the Father Spirit? Yes! Does the Spirit have the Soul of God? Yes!
Is the Son Physical? Yes! Does the Son have the Soul of God? Yes!

Is the Soul the very essence of Eternal existence? Yes!

Is the Body the Soul? No! Is the Spirit the Soul? No! Is the Spirit the Body? No?

Is the Father in the Son as the Son is in the Father? Yes! (John 14:11) - God has ONE SOUL! We know Him as (The Holy Spirit)

Now... Is the Father visible or in one place at a moment? No! (Col. 1:15)
Is the Son visible and in one place at a moment? Yes! (Col 1:15)

Is the Holy Spirit (Soul) of God capable of being many places at once? Yes!
Is the Son (Body) of God capable of being many places at once? Yes!

How many Bodies does God have? Deut. 6:4

What is my point? God is truely TRI! I would say I've demonstrated a very purposeful use of such and resoundingly answered YES! But... Is God UNE as well? Find one verse that distinguishes the BODY of the FATHER from the BODY of the Son! Challenge!! Scripture Challenge!

It is considered Heretical to say the Father has the Stigmata. (Is. 9:6)

Is God a co-collaboration of three separate Bodies? Or a Trinity of Body-Spirit-Soul that we were made in the "Image" of?

Are we One? Yes! Are we Tri? Yes! Can our Spirit, Body and Soul be in disagreement? YES!!! (Romans 7:15)

Can God's Spirit, Body and Soul be in disagreement? NO! God is the only PERFECT ONE! (Lk. 22:42)"

I address Colossians 1 Later...

Scripturally, if God dwells anywhere, then the universe is His God. Why?

I fully agree with you. In-fact... I say that God is Tri and Une. I distinguish that God Created in such a fashion that allowed for free will to reign, that sincere Love might be cultivated, by Being "Father" (Architect) and "Son" Creator.

I fully believe that the Spirit (Father) is beyond time and The Son (Logos) was placed by God, within time (NOT CREATED ... Placed ... as in... i can't separate my BODY from my Spirit ... But God Can.) Do I have evidence? Genesis 1:1 (In the beginning God... UNE and Tri) ... Gen. 1:2 (The Earth Was Formless and Void) ... Void of what? God had just created it. Void of Life? (Gen. 1:3) "Let there be Light"... This is where I propose that God the Father and God the Son, both of One Soul... (Holy Spirit ... and third fully capable, interactive, sentient presence of the God Head `Ruach HaKadesh') Separated for purpose. If God said light and it isn't the Sun... we can only lean on scripture to show us the very meaning of why light is "added". (John 8:12, 9:5) In other words...

I am suggesting that God is utterly limitless, but ensured free Will would reign within creation, out of Love and sincerity. God knew that creation was different than Himself, the Creator and separated His omniscience from Creation... through the Son, who the Bible clearly says, "All things were made by, through and for".

I further state that Hebrews 4 links Jesus Death, Burial and Resurrection to Creation ... via the true meaning of Sabbath rest. "It is finished" is a Creation statement, statement of a debt paid in full and the words from the "Memra" that show our Debt of "Sin" is Paid in full.

I will leave this scripture for today to show a fraction of what I am conveying...

(Luke 14:28) Note: A tower is only half way up. Man can only build a religion or Tower of Babel (Gen. 11:3f, 4f) that never reaches God.

However, Jesus is our stairway that connects "Heaven and Earth" (I distinguish Infinity and Timelessness as the "Third Heaven" and Earth "As our very Kosmos"). (Gen. 28:12)

He is our "Tree of Life".

God Created us and as scripture says... (Eph. 1:4)

Because there would be something or someone beside Himself AND that something would be greater than Him. Mormons believe exactly this, that God is a maker, but product of the universe and that the universe, logically is His God.

And yet... we see Jesus bound to humanity and the reveal is that Jesus is the very "IMAGE" or "BODY" of God in scripture... (1 Tim. 3:16). To further say this...

"OPEN and SINCERE RELATIONSHIP - Love, Relationship; This is another major point. All through Scripture, God explains that His entire purpose of Creation is for "His Son". We also know the SON as the LOGOS and very "WORD, PROMISE, ROCK, PILLAR OF FIRE BY NIGHT, CLOUD BY DAY... Etc". We are assured in scripture that God has had a Father, Son relationship that is ETERNAL. When Jesus describes the coming of the Comforter... We have other verses that distinguish the "Comforter" as (Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19 and so on), but a really mysterious set of verses are (John 10:30 and John 14:23). This suggests that the Holy Spirit is the very unity (Soul of God ... and source of absolute Unity! ... keep in mind... the razor we walk on... God is Une, but to deny the eternal Relationship of the Father and Son is a supreme revision of biblical revelation in scripture.) of Jesus the Son with His Father, within us! Within our HEARTS! If this isn't the most intimate relationship in my life, I don't know what else could be. My Point? God demonstrates His desire for sincere Relationship with us in EVERY Word of Scripture. Of-coarse, the biggest proof verse is (John 5:39f) and a the very lengths that Jesus went to so He could dwell in our Hearts! (Heb. 2:14)"

Isaiah 45:5 Yet God clearly states: "There is no other." and further Isaiah 42:8 "I will not share."

In Colossians 1 we learn everything is sustained (contained therefore) in the Creation-power of Christ.
Significance? Nothing exists that exists without Him, as Colossians 1 clearly and implicitly states. John 15:5 states as well, "without Me, you can do not one thing."

Again... I am not disagreeing with you one bit. In fact... I am now expounding on the Tri... As I said here... "OPEN WITHIN TIME - If one ponders that God limited His foreknowledge through His Son, all of those pesky doctrines that struggle to explain how God isn't a tyrant, but created a "Free" system that allowed Evil to manifest itself within said system, fall away. It becomes simple. The Son has always been the limited in foreknowledge presence of God within Time. This concept genuinely exonerates ONE that needed no exoneration in the first place. This also solidifies that the Theophanies in scripture are no Less than the LOGOS, Eternal SON that is truly Blameless!"

Note... it says... By, For and Through... and I indeed testify that He is utterly UNE, yet TRI.

Omnipresence is the key to understanding what I am suggesting and it doesn't disagree with any scripture.

"If" God could write a new song, it would literally have to be 1) notes He'd never created, 2) words that there was no potential of being able to be put together And importantly 3) completely outside Himself and from another God. Why? Because ALL things proceed from within the Lord God.

I couldn't agree more... But... I would say that because we are Body, Spirit and Soul... and God is Body, Spirit and Soul ... we can see that God's "Body, Spirit and Soul is much more capable than our ... Body, Spirit and Soul. God could write that song three different ways with his Body, Spirit and Soul that come out in PERFECT HARMONY.

"If" all things do not proceed from God, then the Open Theist is correct BUT God would also be part of creation.
Because all things proceed (else Colossians 1 is untrue) from Him, He necessarily is all-knowing of all that proceeds from Him and because He sustains all things, all actions, all movement, everything.

Spirit (Father) (Mind and unbound, Infinite Presence of God... Timeless!!!... No Boundaries ... Invisible)

Body (Son) (The very expression and presence of God... the very revelation of God... Can be uniquily bound to time for the purpose of Creation and Perfection... while the Father remains beyond time yet they are utterly able to communicate at need via their co-joined (SOUL... Holy Spirit... "LET US", "We" (Gen. 1:26, 3:22) ... we also see a unified dialogue at key points in time throughout scripture... The flood is another example... (Gen. 6:3) ... Note... The Father Proceeds from the Son, and the Holy Spirit Proceeds from the Son... (Gen. 2:7) ... as in... It was the Son (Logos) that breathed into the nostrils of Man... There is a noted difference in matters, once Jesus commits His Spirit back to the Father... upon saying "It is finished". This is where I am zeroing in...

"This is a touchy subject! God is genuinely omniscient. While Jesus was among us in flesh, He had a form of omniscience (John 2:25), yet... even pre-ascension... Jesus said this... (Acts 1:6f) ... note that this is slightly different than (Matthew 24:36). In other words, Jesus has ascended into the "Fathers" "Hands" already, in Spirit and Something has changed from Matthew to Acts. Point blank... Jesus doesn't speak in Plurality... He doesn't use the verbiage that He doesn't know the answer to the disciples questions. He makes it clear that He won't let them know the answer because it is only for God to know."

I do not believe Open Theism can sustain logically. -Lon

Not so fast Lon... I have a strong counter argument to why God Created as "Architect" (Father) and "Creator" (Son), While willingly limiting/choosing to be limited in foreknowledge (through the Son, though the Father retains ALL foreknowledge/Omniscience)... This would seem preposterous... but we have scriptural evidence that God can do this through His Son (Body)... Php. 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

It is this...

"Another point to bring in now... Testing vs. Tempting. This very theological information is crucial to get right! One tests and one tempts! Also... There is Father Tree theology and there is Son Tree Theology.

Tree of Life (Son, Fruit of the Spirit, Faith, Trust, God's Provision)

(Tree of The Knowledge O.G.A.E.) (Father, Perfection, Law, Omniscience, LORDSHIP, Provider)

Testing... (Dt. 8:2) ... Tempt... (James 1:13)

Why is this imperative?

Because if the "Memra" (Word) had "foreknowledge" in Creation and Time... Placing the tree of the Father Tree within the garden and knowing the outcome would simultaneously be Testing and Tempting. Any theology that fails to distinguish that the Logos (Word/Memra) had purpose and design set forth (John 10:37, 5:19), yet didn't have the foreknowledge of the outcome is defining God as The Tempter.

One model of theology is clearly lacking next to the other! Let's get blunt through analogy. Instead of the Father Tree and the Garden... we'll use the analogy of a Loaded Gun and a Locked room.

-One theology has God locking a 7 year old in a room with many toys... including a loaded gun, knowing full well the Gun will be used to bring self-harm. This would make God "Evil".

-The other theology has God creating everything in sincerity and through co-collaboration of Omniscience and Limited foreknowledge... that Free Will could reign. How did the omniscient Father prepare matters to ensure sincerity? Self Saccrifice that would pay for the presence of the Loaded Gun and simultaneously allow... (Switching back to Spiritual Verbiage) Sincerity and Fertile soil of Love, with utter provision for all possible outcomes.

Two Trees...

But that would mean that the Father was the "Architect" and the Son was the "Builder"! Yup! The Architect Planned Sincerely and Perfectly and the "Builder" Built Perfectly! No Right hand hiding it's intentions from the Left hand... GOD is never a LEFT HAND! God is ONE!"

And so... I leave you with these questions...

Is God now, not Tri? Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

When did the Son, who we both Agree... per. (Col. 1:15, 16f, 18) is the Physical Creator ... "Finish Creation"?

Spoiler

My proposed Answer: (John 19:30 and Hebrews 4 tied to Gen. 2:2 and (Luke 14:28f, 30) ... In other words... The Father designed it and willed it... and the Son Created it and maintained it...

I suggest that God has allowed the form of Himself that is directly interactive with Mankind to be limited in foreknowledge to experience genuine relationship and provide free will, without being "responsible" for it's abuse. I further propose that He paid the price for providing Free Will, that Love could be "Genuinely" manifested from our Hearts to Him. After all... (Ephesians 1:4 and 1 Peter 1:20 ... Also ... Romans 8:9)...

Gratitude for being the first person to actually rebut me with scripture, and know that I recognize all human interpretation... (Mine especially) as simply that (Human interpretation).

If you would like to continue this round and round... I would be honored. I Love and appreciate you all the more for scripturally challenging me.

- EE

 

[jamie]

Wherever two or more are GATHERED in HIS NAME

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:18-20 KJV)​

I say to you. Who are the you?

This is not a universal declaration and should not be interpreted as such.

This was addressed to a particular group of men. What they bound for Crist's assembly is binding. What they loosed is not binding.

Their legislation is revealed in the NT and its execution is detailed in Paul's writings.

 

[Nick M]

Dear Open Theists...

Open Theism isn't about the gospel. It is a way to describe in our terms how God describes himself in the Bible. And that the idea that every single detail is not hashed out ahead of time and are just along for the ride.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:18-20 KJV)​

I say to you. Who are the you?

This is not a universal declaration and should not be interpreted as such.

This was addressed to a particular group of men. What they bound for Christ's assembly is binding. What they loosed is not binding.

Their legislation is revealed in the NT and its execution is detailed in Paul's writings.

Indeed... You have brought the literal meaning of this together. You have also pointed out that the there is a distinction between this address and when Paul brought things forward. That would be off OP topic.

To show that I am indeed humble and willing to concede a matter... i will rephrase this... in my own words. May we all unify for the purpose of Christ and the Gospel, alone. Labels all wash away when John 5:39f is understood. (1 Cor. 1:13) takes it's full meaning on. About the 12... you linked the 12 to the 1. I haven't gotten here yet. That is a separate matter. However, I will say this. We are assured that the Logos (Son) was the very presence of God, before Israel (Ecclesiastical Church)...

{Indent]1 Corinthians 10

1. Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.[/Indent]

Because the Son was the guide to the (Ecclesiastical Church) and the 12 were His emissaries in binding to the 12 Sons of Jacob (Israel)... per our Lord, God and Savior... (Mt. 15:24) 24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”... Why do people deny that there are two "Bodies" ... when there was even a Trinity Change of guard and Human leadership?

John 14:25 and Acts 1:4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”... Which Dovetails into... ... Acts 9:3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.[a] It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”... And further to ... Acts 19 they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all. ... Why does this passage focus on Paul and note 12?

It's almost as if the MADD's are correct and the church of the (Ecclesiastical and LOGOS) is to be distinguished from the (Members of Christ, Holy Spirit and Paul)... in fact... the Madds are right... We have... (John 20:29) ... and (John 16:7) and to make matters more clear... Galatians 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles) .. . and further scriptural DNA in ... 1 Cor. 1 ... Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. ... and further in James chapter 1

"James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:"

See that Jamie? Twelve Abroad...?

It indeed appears that the Mid Acts Dispensationalist's are correct!!! And why is the important to my OP?

Because I reinforce that the Son was limited in foreknowledge until He commended His Spirit into the Fathers hands. I then state that the Holy Spirit has become our Limited in Foreknowledge emissary of the GODHEAD.

Changing of the Guard. And since you like Paul quite a bit... Note that He is a unique Apostle, in that He "HEARS" Jesus Christ, but isn't recorded to have "Seen" Him. He uniquely represents the Church of Grace. (Ephesians 3:1) to us Gentiles in the "Age of Grace" or Gentile Age...

Romans 11:25 - For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

And Again from Jesus... Luke 21:24 - And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

-- Out of everything on this thread, you zeroed in on a well known verse that encourages others to not... (Heb. 10:25) and wanted to make it scripturally literal. I have no problem conceding the allegorical usage of the scripture that you brought up, but now I turn and ask you... could you please address these literal passages?

Or maybe... simply the passages that I quoted and went to lengths to explain to Lon that are right before your post.

What does this post or the one right before your post say to you? Could you give me an idea of what you feel or understand that I am trying to convey?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Open Theism isn't about the gospel. It is a way to describe in our terms how God describes himself in the Bible. And that the idea that every single detail is not hashed out ahead of time and are just along for the ride.

Hello Nick,

I would say that in the context of how I am now looking for "Open Theism" within scripture, it deeply pertains to Jesus Christ and the Gospel.

I am a grace man as you. I admit... Past Jesus being our Lord, God, Savior and (Ephesians 1:13, per Romans 8:9 and Php. 1:19)... in the context of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of our living, breathing God... That is our very PROMISE of Salvation in (John 3:16) that it is indeed a free (Eph. 2:8f) ... because (Romans 6:23).... (oops.. ran on a bit... but continued from... I admit... Past Jesus (John 5:39f)... All else is just an idea of thought and understanding.

How about within the context of my dialogue with Lon... Here?

The Post I'm suggesting is LINKED Here

I fully agree with your statement, by the way... I am adding a little OP support in my words to hopefully, bring things forward a bit. I'm looking for actual scriptural analysis of what I've written.

The Gospel and Theology are 2 separate entities... Lest any man ADD to it or TAKE AWAY from it.

- All blessings to you... your posts always encourage me. You are unapologetic about the very POWER of the BLOOD, despite whatever challenges or words are issued towards you.

 

[Nick M]

Open Theism is not at odd with "calvinism".

Calvinism is at odds with the gospel. Calvinism is a false gospel claiming they were saved because God declared them righteous beforehand.

This is an example of open theism, from the first page of the Bible.

Genesis 2

19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

 

[jamie]

"This is a touchy subject! God is genuinely omniscient. While Jesus was among us in flesh, He had a form of omniscience (John 2:25), yet... even pre-ascension... Jesus said this... (Acts 1:6f) ... note that this is slightly different than (Matthew 24:36). In other words, Jesus has ascended into the "Fathers" "Hands" already, in Spirit and Something has changed from Matthew to Acts. Point blank... Jesus doesn't speak in Plurality... He doesn't use the verbiage that He doesn't know the answer to the disciples questions. He makes it clear that He won't let them know the answer because it is only for God to know."

In the context of "open theism" it may well be that the Father has not yet decided the exact time he will end the age.

 

[jamie]

I don't believe life is scripted.

However, I believe God knows a quite a bit about a particular person before they are even born just by their DNA.

But then he loves to watch each person grow and develop just like any parent loves their children and wants the best for them.

When a person responds to him he will guide them through his Spirit, a Spirit of power and love and a sound mind. (2 Timothy 1:7)

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Open Theism is not at odd with "calvinism".

Calvinism is at odds with the gospel. Calvinism is a false gospel claiming they were saved because God declared them righteous beforehand.

This is an example of open theism, from the first page of the Bible.

Genesis 2

19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

Here goes... [MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] are silently watching to see if I'm sincere. I've never had a theological home in reality anyways...

I'm putting my foot down! Nick... No!

AMR and Lon... watch my words... because I'm going to say some strong things.

1) The only time theology was 100% accurate was HERE (John 5:39) ... everything else is our understanding of He who reveals Himself in scripture to us. The scriptures are the only 100% trustworthy source of writing. Everything else is simply a "Lens".

AMR knows this and so does Lon. They are "Calvinists", but they know Calvin was no more then a forgiven sinner that ached to further the cause of reform. There are people within every branch of theology that assert their understanding as the only one... but... to call a gospel false and a theology false are two matters!

AMR and Lon can drop Calvinism in a heartbeat, but their HEARTBEAT is still Jesus. They know the difference between "The Baby" and "The Bathwater"!

Unfortunately... some people like ... "we'll keep it at some people" worship the words and message of Calvin, but AMR and Lon aren't guilty of this!

In fact... the Spirit of Reform is a necessary spirit that connects "Open Theism" to "Calvinism". We are collectively ready, like "gasoline" to be struck by the Spirit as FLINT... to take whatever we are revealed from the Spirit to the 4 corners in the name of Jesus!

They know He is He! They are righteousin His name, for His Name and By His Name, alone! Is not the "Open Theist" and the "Calvinist" saved by the same "grace" that flows beyond measure? We all get in Jesus Christ's way! That's the flesh repressing the Spirit! So what! We're imperfect! The Spirit of Reform dwells in the truely Reformed and I believe AMR and Lon know that all is not revealed from scripture yet, thus they would humbly admit that we are all just in Love with Jesus and looking everywhere we can to understand the majestic King of kings that dwells within us as our (Ephesians 1:13)

I am speaking uniquely towards Open Theism and Reform. I lay all my understanding down to honor (1 Co. 1:13)

No Bull Business...

I was baptized in the Name of Jesus!

[MENTION=6141]Nick M[/MENTION]
[MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION]
[MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION]

Who saved you? Who's Name were you baptized Under? (Acts 19:5)

Please answer with one word each of you and see if we are as different as we say.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I don't believe life is scripted.

However, I believe God knows a quite a bit about a particular person before they are even born just by their DNA.

But then he loves to watch each person grow and develop just like any parent loves their children and wants the best for them.

When a person responds to him he will guide them through his Spirit, a Spirit of power and love and a sound mind. (2 Timothy 1:7)

I love what you have said here! It is beautiful and agrees with this... (Ps. 139:14)

Amen!

 

[Nick M]

1) The only time theology was 100% accurate was HERE (John 5:39) ... everything else is our understanding of He who reveals Himself in scripture to us. The scriptures are the only 100% trustworthy source of writing. Everything else is simply a "Lens".

Meaningless to the debate. And as far as the gospel and being revealed.....If I am lifted up I will draw all unto me.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

In the context of "open theism" it may well be that the Father has not yet decided the exact time he will end the age.

He says the Spirit of Love be will grow Cold at the time and Jesus says the Father knows.

Open Theism isn't daft in a way that it would allow that one verse to overturn it. I believe Open Theism implies the Son or Holy Spirit are limited in foreknowledge... depending on their place of relationship, per biblical time, yet the Father remains fully Omniscient.

From Gen. 1:3 (John 8:12 ... world is "Kosmo ... universe usage connected to Kosmos) to Luke 23:46... then... Matthew 27:52 (Heb. 11:40)... then... Matthew 28:2 to Acts 1:9...

Change of Divine Guard, yet the Father remained within all... as He is the very omnipresence of the GodHead.

Acts 1:4 to Acts 2:2f ... Human change of Guard starts with a man in Acts 9

This is my view... on the "Open Matter".

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Meaningless to the debate. And as far as the gospel and being revealed.....If I am lifted up I will draw all unto me.

[MENTION=6141]Nick M[/MENTION] ... I edited this part, because it sounded harsh... in my rereading. God bless you.

At the beginning of my OP... just a few posts of mine in... I quote Jesus praying for our unity in Him. This is all I am suggesting. Fights and theological debate are a must. It is the iron that brings forth Spiritual sharpening!

John 17:20-23

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

Yet regardless... I wear the label "Open Theist" now... by honesty and study, prayer and surrender.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

[MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] ,

My good friend... Your input is welcome here.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Thread back up... I must have closed it by accident. Cell phone error? Idk... anyhow... sorry about the pause...

 

[Lon]

Meaningless to the debate. And as far as the gospel and being revealed.....If I am lifted up I will draw all unto me.

1) I have no problem with your accusation against Calvinism as you understand it.
2) I believe He is lifted up. All will be drawn to Him one way or the other.
3) His work on the cross is sufficient for all, rather this is a discussion about God's foreknowledge regarding that, so does touch upon the Open View discussion in that light.

 

[Robert Pate]

Due to the fallen nature of man, including Christians, there will not be any unity until we are in heaven with Christ.

 

[Nick M]

The gospel writer tells us what being lifted up meant. The Holy Spirit gave it to him. There is no believe or don't believe, although I am glad you believe.

 

[Nick M]

At the beginning of my OP... just a few posts of mine in... I quote Jesus praying for our unity in Him. Is that prayer... "Meaningless"? I'll brb...

In him is just that. The people I have heated debate with here are not in him. They are wolves and wolvettes.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

In him is just that. The people I have heated debate with here are not in him. They are wolves and wolvettes.

I understand your words clearly! You speak of those that elevate man above God, "our Lord, God and savior, Jesus Christ our only hope and salvation." You've seen me around... Scripture says those must be silenced!

Exact words.

So in that... all respect.