California lawmakers seek to end 'personal belief' vaccine exemptions

[OCTOBER23]

Measles = last year the nation had its highest number of measles cases.
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Question : Why and Where do these DISEASES COME FROM.

-- Are they being MANUFACTURED by Terrorists or are they a government black opps

action like at the PLUM ISLAND LABRATORIES ??

PLUM ISLAND
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During the cold war, it was home to a secret biological weapons program

blamed for the spread of Lyme disease, named for a town nearby .

Plum Island administrators along with 326 permanent employees .

received $400 million in the latest appropriations bill,

and is a Military priority and a biological danger to the community.

 

[shagster01]

Let me ask this, would/do you all also support California lawmakers seeking to end 'personal belief' gay wedding cake exemptions for bakers or 'personal belief' abortion exemptions for doctors?

 

[aikido7]

I took some science classes in high school.

I learned that NOTHING in science is 100%--even among scientists.

This is simply part of the scientific method used for centuries.

If a vaccine has been deemed safe, it is never going to be 100& safe.
All research studies offered for peer and public review confirm this.

FOX "News" might frame the facts as "scientists say the vaccine can actually harm patients," or liberal cable news might frame it as "new wonder vaccine discovered.

Both sides are correct in a literal sense. But basic science should tell us how to evaluate the difference.

BTW, one of my science classes stressed critical thinking and collaborative problem-solving skills and our teacher would always break us up in small groups to figure out questions and problems.

It was real effective and I have used that same method at two workplaces.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

This was published in the same journal:

http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/11/09/re-how-case-against-mmr-vaccine-was-fixed

Aye, it was, and the best defense for Wakefield's apparent misconduct seems to be "I do not believe that Dr. Wakefield intentionally misinterpreted the grading sheets...".

The Editor of BMJ Fionna Godlee responded:

"Last year the BMJ received an email from Dr David Lewis, a retired environmental microbiologist in the United States. In an attached document he argued that Andrew Wakefield had not committed fraud in relation to the now retracted Lancet paper on MMR and autism. The document contained inaccuracies and misleading statements based on hearsay. But the related information was of interest, including as it did what appeared to be copies of pathology grading sheets completed by one of the Lancet authors Amar Dhillon. On closer examination these grading sheets did nothing to absolve Andrew Wakefield. They showed that the majority of bowel samples taken from the 12 Lancet children were normal or as near normal as makes no difference."

The grading sheets being only one of several examples of lets say artistic license on behalf of Andrew Wakefield in presenting his data, thus a less than convincing appeal. Even operating under the very charitable assumption that Wakefield unknowingly laced his paper with erroneous data in support of the class-action lawsuit in which he was paid handsomely in a pre-arranged agreement to find evidence against the safety of the MMR vaccine, while also filing for a patent of his own competing vaccine, undercuts the accuracy of that data when it is riddled with discrepancies whether intentional or not. Though the preponderance of evidence indicates intentional. This doesn't seem to matter to those that oppose vaccination that would elevate Wakefield to a "Whistelblower" nor the fact the Andrew Wakefield was advancing a vaccine of his own, a cruel irony in that methinks.

Is there another controversy regarding his findings that you want address?

The actual examples I highlighted said nothing of grading sheets but rather of falsely reported dates regarding the onset of symptoms associated with autism and fabricated medical conditions, that went unaddressed by the response article by David Lewis or you for that matter. So I would start there.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

You and others brought up Wakefield several times, as if his alleged fraudulent acts prove anything relevant to this discussion, as if they justify my children being mandated to receive vaccinations they don't need or want, as if that one case somehow justifies that my religious rights should be denied to comply with the mandate.

Well, if your position rests upon your religious convictions then it wouldn't matter what the refereed medical literature says on the matter, your objection would remain the same, no? The argument regarding your religious rights over the health of your children is a similar (if not more spurious) than the argument made by some Christian Scientists who believe that they ought to refuse modern medical care for their children on the basis of "religious rights" and "personal beliefs", which has resulted in 172 child deaths between 1975 and 1995 from preventable diseases.

 

[aikido7]

The first measles case within a school, church or other bounded area is basically the "corporate office."

The additional cases of measles stemming from that first case are the "franchises."

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

elohiym?

 

[resodko]

.. my children being mandated to receive vaccinations they don't need or want, as if that one case somehow justifies that my religious rights should be denied to comply with the mandate.

so keep your kids away from the rest of society :idunno:

when they start dying of diseases that could have been prevented, perhaps you'll stop being such a retard

 

[Granite]

Why don't we have polio parties while we're at it? Let's bring that sucker back. Who here doesn't want a polio vaccine?

 

[genuineoriginal]

so keep your kids away from the rest of society :idunno:

That could help in keeping unvaccinated kids from catching diseases from fully vaccinated people like "Measles Mary".

_____
Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time

When it comes to the measles vaccine, two shots are better than one. Most people in the United States are initially vaccinated against the virus shortly after their first birthday and return for a booster shot as a toddler. Less than 1% of people who get both shots will contract the potentially lethal skin and respiratory infection. And even if a fully vaccinated person does become infected—a rare situation known as “vaccine failure”—they weren’t thought to be contagious.

That’s why a fully vaccinated 22-year-old theater employee in New York City who developed the measles in 2011 was released without hospitalization or quarantine. But like Typhoid Mary, this patient turned out to be unwittingly contagious. Ultimately, she transmitted the measles to four other people, according to a recent report in Clinical Infectious Diseases that tracked symptoms in the 88 people with whom “Measles Mary” interacted while she was sick. Surprisingly, two of the secondary patients had been fully vaccinated. And although the other two had no record of receiving the vaccine, they both showed signs of previous measles exposure that should have conferred immunity.
_____​

 

[rexlunae]

That could help in keeping unvaccinated kids from catching diseases from fully vaccinated people like "Measles Mary".

Do you imagine that you're making a clever point here? This isn't particularly surprising.

 

[elohiym]

so keep your kids away from the rest of society :idunno:

Is all the rest of society vaccinated? No. Therefore, you have no point.

when they start dying of diseases that could have been prevented, perhaps you'll stop being such a retard

Is God anywhere in the equation in your view?

I noticed you can't address my points about the tentanus vaccine, and can't provide logical reasons to mandate it or the two other specific vaccines I asked you about.

 

[resodko]

i noticed that we've had these conversations before and i left off when i realized that you were retarded

have fun risking your kids lives :idunno:

 

[elohiym]

That could help in keeping unvaccinated kids from catching diseases from fully vaccinated people ...

I already posted one study that linked the DTaP to an increase in parapertusis colonization in vaccine recipients, and that could potentially cause the spread of the infection to others.

That the same vaccine health care workers have received when they are handling new born babies. Nosocomial pertusis is often traced to health care workers who are supposed to be vaccinated.

 

[aikido7]

No one deserves the fact of a child being lowered into the ground--even though they are not unborn.

 

[elohiym]

i noticed that we've had these conversations before

In a dream? We haven't discussed this or my points that you have dodged.

and i left off when i realized that you were retarded

When you realize that it's really because you are lazy and slow, then do come back and consider addressing the points you punted.

have fun risking your kids lives :idunno:

The person allowing their children to be injected with arguably needless and certainly harmful substances is the one risking his kid's life, and arguably the lives of others.

Since I suffered a vaccine injury and most likely passed my possibly susceptible genetics to my children, I can't take that chance with their health even if it wasn't against my religious beliefs.

 

[elohiym]

Aye, it was, and the best defense for Wakefield's apparent misconduct seems to be "I do not believe that Dr. Wakefield intentionally misinterpreted the grading sheets...".

If his work wasn't legitimate, I can only point out that his was not the only name on the report, and ask you why you would claim his findings were not replicated? How would one replicate those findings?

I still don't know why Wakefield is relevant to this discussion, and why some people kept bringing him up. Didn't he suggest getting the single measles vaccine and only expressed caution about MMR?

 

[elohiym]

No one deserves the fact of a child being lowered into the ground--even though they are not unborn.

Yes.

I think it's folly for a Christian to believe he or his children are protected from death by vaccines.

 

[resodko]

Yes.

I think it's folly for a Christian to believe he or his children are protected from death by vaccines.

like i said - you're a retard


too bad for your kids :idunno:

 

[elohiym]

elohiym?

I have seven kids and a list of time-sensitive agricultural chores to complete. Please forgive me if I can only give so much time to these discussions.