Boy Scouts Become Girl Scouts

[Huckleberry]

I happen to largely agree with you. However, one note--you seem to be assuming that all men everywhere are sexually attracted to teenaged girls. Now...that's a stretch, to say the least.

Your argument is based on the assumption that a large proportion of adults would molest a young girl given half a chance. That is not a correct assumption.

Not at all. I do allow for the possibility though. That's sufficient for this exercise, don't you think? That possibility is precisely why anyone who isn't a pervert will find that scenario unacceptable.

 

[Padre Vorbis]

Not at all. I do allow for the possibility though. That's sufficient for this exercise, don't you think? That possibility is precisely why anyone who isn't a pervert will find that scenario unacceptable.

As I've said repeatedly now, you might well be correct that it is best for students to have their own restrooms.

But you seem to insist on still pushing this point, so I really don't know what to say. Without data on the actual risks, we can't sensibly continue this discussion (if a discussion about the ethics of where people might hypothetically urinate can ever be sensible).

 

[Huckleberry]

As I've said repeatedly now, you might well be correct that it is best for students to have their own restrooms.

But you seem to insist on still pushing this point, so I really don't know what to say. Without data on the actual risks, we can't sensibly continue this discussion (if a discussion about the ethics of where people might hypothetically urinate can ever be sensible).

That's fine with me. If "that might well be correct" is the best you can answer the idea that an adult heterosexual male shouldn't be granted access to a restroom reserved for young girls, I won't mind not continuing this discussion. You're fairly disgusting to me.

And I do get it. I don't believe for a second that you really think that's just fine and dandy, and certainly not that you'd allow your own daughter to put in such a situation at her school (if you had a daughter). It's just that you realize this disgusting position is logically consistent with everything you've said so far, so you embrace it. It's the fact that you're willing to maintain this disgusting position rather than change course at any point where I've led you from there to here that makes you disgusting. Your politically correct party line is absolutely absurd and you embrace it whatever the cost. Even if it it leads you here...defending this disgusting position. Even when I flatly denounce you as a pervert you only dig in all the deeper.

Your refusal to practice even a modicum of critical thinking has led you to a place where you'd comfortably endanger children, pretending all the while that you're innocent because you're too blind to realize the danger. As if that isn't completely insane.

That is why you disgust me. Because you're a coward who refuses to think for himself and would rather embrace a destructive ideology, sacrificing even children to it, because it absolves you of that troublesome burden.

So by all means, consider the discussion over. I'll not weep. :idunno:

 

[Padre Vorbis]

That's fine with me. If "that might well be correct" is the best you can answer the idea that an adult heterosexual male shouldn't be granted access to a restroom reserved for young girls, I won't mind not continuing this discussion. You're fairly disgusting to me.

I agree you should question the intentions of an adult specifically requesting to use the toilets reserved for young children. That is pretty weird (as I've said repeatedly, see posts #19 and #21), and in nearly all circumstances there isn't a legitimate reason for it.

However, if there is an actual legitimate reason of some sort, I don't think everyone should immediately jump to the conclusion that children are at risk of being molested just because they're sharing a restroom with adults. Otherwise you would have to be worried about child molesters in every public restroom in existence.

 

[Lighthouse]

:vomit:

I don't have a daughter, but that's my visceral reaction when I find one in the ladies room.

Forget the restroom; that's my reaction anytime I see one. Chastity Bono, for instance. Or the one who goes by the name of Candice Kane; or even "Alexis" Arquette.

I will never understand the men who don't care since they now have female parts on the outside.

Your beliefs on this subject are relevant to the subject of allowing homosexual boys into an all-young-male organization characterized by camp outs and other extended periods of minimal adult supervision.

And your "it's quite possible" doesn't alleviate how much your position overall is utterly perverse.

You might as well forget it, as he wouldn't even have a problem if it were a tranny of the same age as the girls.

I happen to largely agree with you. However, one note--you seem to be assuming that all men everywhere are sexually attracted to teenaged girls. Now...that's a stretch, to say the least.

I know Granite has me on ignore, but this is an extremely stupid post. While men in general are not actually interested in having sexual relations with underage girls to deny the fact that an attraction does not exist if the girl in question fits the other parameters of their "type" is highly ignorant. There is a reason "barely legal" porn is a big seller. And why "as long as she's legal," or, "I can't wait until she turns 18," can be heard among men discussing sexual attractiveness of celebrities and even girls/women they know.

There are even instances of seeing a girl in public wearing skimpy clothing and checking her out when one assumes they are an adult, only to see the face of a child when the girl turns around.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Author Ann Coulter agrees.

Ann Coulter is an absolute moron. I honestly don't know that you could find a dumber human being.

I don't have a ton of respect for Bob Enyart's positions, either on open theism or on theonomy or any of that, but I have no doubt that he's smarter than Ann Coulter.

Unless I'm wrong about this, you shouldn't make his ideas look bad by citing Ann Coulter as support for his position.

As much as I don't care for Enyart, I do remember a video where Ann Coulter was trying to tell him (Enyart) that Romney "Tricked the liberals" into voting for him. If I recall correctly, Enyart knew better.

Now, as for the Boy Scouts, they're a private organization. As such, they have the right to do anything they want, provided they don't infringe on anyone else's rights. There is no inherent right to attend Boy Scouts, so whether they allow or do not allow gays, nobody's rights are violated. If you don't like it, don't send your kids. This isn't like government where they force you to pay at the point of a gun whether you like the program or not.

 

[Padre Vorbis]

Now, as for the Boy Scouts, they're a private organization. As such, they have the right to do anything they want, provided they don't infringe on anyone else's rights. There is no inherent right to attend Boy Scouts, so whether they allow or do not allow gays, nobody's rights are violated. If you don't like it, don't send your kids. This isn't like government where they force you to pay at the point of a gun whether you like the program or not.

The Scouts receive taxpayers' money, so that argument doesn't really hold water. And besides that, many would argue that people's right not to be discriminated against on the basis of their sexual preferences is more important than the discriminators' right to discriminate.

Forget the restroom; that's my reaction anytime I see one. Chastity Bono, for instance. Or the one who goes by the name of Candice Kane; or even "Alexis" Arquette.

Remember, the best way to decide whether something is right or wrong is whether you personally find it gross!

You might as well forget it, as he wouldn't even have a problem if it were a tranny of the same age as the girls.

Indeed, I don't really care that much which restrooms people use. Shocking, I know!

Allow me to make my position clear: I don't advocate men walking into girls' restrooms on a regular basis.

However, gender or age segregated restrooms are simply a social convention. There's nothing inherently wrong, on its own, with using the wrong restroom. Yes, it's weird, but I don't see it as anything to get particularly upset about. The fact that I'm being portrayed as a pervert who wants little kids to get raped because I don't really see who uses which restroom as something to get worked up over makes me think some people on this forum really need to get some perspective.

I mean, are you really suggesting that restroom segregation is the only thing between thousands of perverted child molesters and vulnerable pre-teens?

 

[Huckleberry]

The Scouts receive taxpayers' money, so that argument doesn't really hold water.

Show us.

And besides that, many would argue that people's right not to be discriminated against on the basis of their sexual preferences is more important than the discriminators' right to discriminate.

People can argue whatever they like. Irrelevant.

Remember, the best way to decide whether something is right or wrong is whether you personally find it gross!

And of course, you assume his finding it gross is the basis of his determining right and wrong. One could easily argue you base your determination on the same thing, since overcoming your own instinctive response is "enlightened" and therefore whatever is gross must be right. :dizzy:

All of which is, again, irrelevant though.

Indeed, I don't really care that much which restrooms people use. Shocking, I know!

Yes, it is. A well-adjusted and otherwise rational human being can recognize that imposing strict limitations on who has access to which public restroom is a no-brainer. That you don't is indeed shocking.

Allow me to make my position clear: I don't advocate men walking into girls' restrooms on a regular basis.

No, no. Just the grown men who want to use the girl's restroom. Just them. Because it might hurt their feelings if they're not allowed. Everyone else...nope. Right?

However, gender or age segregated restrooms are simply a social convention.

...created to deter criminal abuse! What part of your brain refuses to finish that thought? :doh:

There's nothing inherently wrong, on its own, with using the wrong restroom.

First, I'll point out that you recognize it's the wrong restroom. So maybe there's still some hope for you.

Second, "nothing inherently wrong" is the most pitiful rationalization ever devised. If you're resorting to it, that's a clue you're desperate to rationalize.

Yes, it's weird, but I don't see it as anything to get particularly upset about.

Except for the part about how it exposes people to danger in an extremely vulnerable position and environment.

The fact that I'm being portrayed as a pervert who wants little kids to get raped because I don't really see who uses which restroom as something to get worked up over makes me think some people on this forum really need to get some perspective.

The fact that your support of perverts has led you to the point where you must defend grown men using little girls' restrooms makes me think you're either a pervert or unable to think for yourself at all. Which is it?

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're just a pervert. At least a pervert can think for himself.

I mean, are you really suggesting that restroom segregation is the only thing between thousands of perverted child molesters and vulnerable pre-teens?

Not the only thing. But, again, here you recognize it is a thing keeping thousands of perverts from assaulting people. So, again, either a pervert or unable to think for yourself. I'm still going with pervert. You're welcome.

 

[gcthomas]

Huckleberry, you really are quite an objectionable person. Vorbis's views are quite mainstream outside of the cocoon you have built around yourself.

Question: how many train stations or sports grounds have you been in that have restrooms that keep men and boys separate? If none, why none?

The city council near me here is in the process of building 'gender neutral' public toilets.

Where I work there are not separate facilities for men and women. With shared toilets the women don't have to queue. No one has complained, afaik.

Surely, if you are worried about 'perverts', they will have less opportunity to be alone in shared restrooms with twice as many people around as for separate areas.

Vorbis may name himself for a popular free audio codec, but he is not irrational as you suggest and his comments have merit. He just doesn't agree with you.

 

[Huckleberry]

Huckleberry, you really are quite an objectionable person. Vorbis's views are quite mainstream outside of the cocoon you have built around yourself.

Question: how many train stations or sports grounds have you been in that have restrooms that keep men and boys separate? If none, why none?

The city council near me here is in the process of building 'gender neutral' public toilets.

Where I work there are not separate facilities for men and women. With shared toilets the women don't have to queue. No one has complained, afaik.

Surely, if you are worried about 'perverts', they will have less opportunity to be alone in shared restrooms with twice as many people around as for separate areas.

Vorbis may name himself for a popular free audio codec, but he is not irrational as you suggest and his comments have merit. He just doesn't agree with you.

He and I weren't talking about public restroom any-old-where. I realize he insists on pretending we were after the fact, but if you look back at our discussion you'll see we were talking about a junior high school girl's restroom, even elementary school, and an adult male custodian.

So. What public school anywhere allows their adult male custodians to use the restroom reserved for girls? That is what Padre Vorbis was forced to allow for and what he's trying to defend (partly by passively backpedaling).

 

[Lighthouse]

Remember, the best way to decide whether something is right or wrong is whether you personally find it gross!

Yup, you're right. That's it exactly. Vomiting is a sin, and so is defecation; because those things are gross.

Oh, wait, the truth is: you're an idiot.

Indeed, I don't really care that much which restrooms people use. Shocking, I know!

Allow me to make my position clear: I don't advocate men walking into girls' restrooms on a regular basis.

However, gender or age segregated restrooms are simply a social convention. There's nothing inherently wrong, on its own, with using the wrong restroom. Yes, it's weird, but I don't see it as anything to get particularly upset about. The fact that I'm being portrayed as a pervert who wants little kids to get raped because I don't really see who uses which restroom as something to get worked up over makes me think some people on this forum really need to get some perspective.

I mean, are you really suggesting that restroom segregation is the only thing between thousands of perverted child molesters and vulnerable pre-teens?

So if I walked into the ladies' room at the bar to get a peek at some women with their knickers down you don't see a problem with that?

And I'm not the one arguing the adults using teen restrooms argument; I'm discussing people of the same age using the same restroom.

Care to try again?

 

[Eeset]

So if I walked into the ladies' room at the bar to get a peek at some women with their knickers down you don't see a problem with that?

I don't want men wandering around the ladies room but your example is ludicrous. Are you going to lie down on the floor and stick your head under the closed door of a stall? I'd probably launch a swift kick in the general direction of your eyeballs.

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't want men wandering around the ladies room but your example is ludicrous. Are you going to lie down on the floor and stick your head under the closed door of a stall? I'd probably launch a swift kick in the general direction of your eyeballs.

Okay, why don't you want men wandering around the ladies room? According to Padre Vorbis and gcthomas, you're being unreasonable. :idunno:

 

[Eeset]

Okay, why don't you want men wandering around the ladies room? According to Padre Vorbis and gcthomas, you're being unreasonable. :idunno:

Listen buster when it comes to who is in the ladies room I am very reasonable. Women, girls and babies. That's it. Freaks and wanna-be pretenders are not welcome.

 

[gcthomas]

Okay, why don't you want men wandering around the ladies room? According to Padre Vorbis and gcthomas, you're being unreasonable. :idunno:

One would expect that unisex restrooms wouldn't have gaps under the cubicles. And are you aware of paedophiles crawling along on their bellies peering up under the doors in the single sex restrooms? Looks pretty obvious to me if I had seen such a thing.

I'm sure I'd be creeped out if men went wandering into the toilets designated for ladies and girls only when there was a gentlemen's room available (note that public restrooms don't keep adults and children separated-that's your biggest problem, right?) but that isn't a problem for unisex versions where cubicles would provide more privacy.

Incidentally, at big outdoor events where there are BIG queues for the ladies, I've seen plenty of women head for the Gents loos. Not particularly creepy.

 

[Huckleberry]

Listen buster when it comes to who is in the ladies room I am very reasonable. Women, girls and babies. That's it. Freaks and wanna-be pretenders are not welcome.

Yeah, okay, but why? You're not telling me why and that's what I'm trying to get to.

I'm sure I'd be creeped out if men went wandering into the toilets designated for ladies and girls only when there was a gentlemen's room available...

Why?