Theology Club: both in one Body by the cross

[heir]

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

The "both" that are "in one Body by the cross" (the “twain” made “one new man”) are not 1. Jew and 2. Gentile, but:

1. “them that were nigh”/ the “we” “who first trusted in Christ” (Ephesians 1:12 KJV)

and

2. the "you which were afar off “/the “ye” who “also trusted” (Ephesians 1:13 KJV)

In the first group, there were Gentiles (and Jews) and in the later group there were Gentiles, but those from the second group weren’t like (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) the first group of Gentiles (Galatians 3:29 KJV).

We see two types of Gentiles in the OT (Genesis 12:3 KJV). It should not be difficult to see that there were two types of Gentiles in the “dispensation of grace”.

In Christ, there is no difference between them now as we are past the point where there was a distinction, but there was a distinction and in order to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9 KJV) we, the church, continue to make it known (Ephesians 3:10 KJV)!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

:BRAVO:

 

[heir]

:BRAVO:

It's too bad there's only a few of us who see it here.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In the first group, there were Gentiles (and Jews) and in the later group there were Gentiles, but those from the second group weren’t like (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) the first group of Gentiles (Galatians 3:29 KJV).

In that group there were people who were previously Gentiles but they had become Jews by the time when Paul wrote those words.

In Christ, there is no difference between them now as we are past the point where there was a distinction, but there was a distinction and in order to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9 KJV) we, the church, continue to make it known (Ephesians 3:10 KJV)!

The correct translation is "dispensation of the mystery," not fellowship of the mystery:

"and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things" (Eph.3:9; ASV).​

 

[heir]

In that group there were people who were previously Gentiles but they had become Jews by the time when Paul wrote those words.

In the first group, yes there were proselytes called Jews. So the first group was Jews, proselytes called Jews and Greeks.

The correct translation is "dispensation of the mystery," not fellowship of the mystery:

"and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things" (Eph.3:9; ASV).​

There's no need to change the term. "fellowship of the mystery" is a perfect Holy Spirit inspired term.

We, the ye who also trusted Ephesians 1:13 KJV, are "fellowheirs" in the same "ship" with those who first trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12 KJV) beginning with Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV).

The first group, Jews and Greeks saved in a dispensation of the gospel committed to the apostle Paul(1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV)/the mystery of Christ (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV)

and

The second group saved in the dispensation of the grace of God to usward (Ephesians 3:1-5 KJV)/the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Ephesians 6:19 KJV).

Works for me!

 

[patrick jane]

It's too bad there's only a few of us who see it here.

I see it, it's clear.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It's interesting that this verse is in there,

to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9 KJV)

It seems that this doctrine is one that is passed on through teaching rather than just solo study. I was taught it, and I saw it. Sister heir was taught it, and she saw it.

It has been a huge eye opener for both of us, and I think that is why we talk about it every chance we get!

 

[heir]

I see it, it's clear.

:BRAVO:

 

[heir]

It's interesting that this verse is in there,

to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9 KJV)

It seems that this doctrine is one that is passed on through teaching rather than just solo study. I was taught it, and I saw it. Sister heir was taught it, and she saw it.

It has been a huge eye opener for both of us, and I think that is why we talk about it every chance we get!

Amen to that, Brother! Thank you for your faithfulness in making all men see it! It has been a life changer for me!

 

[musterion]

It's interesting that this verse is in there,

to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9 KJV)

It seems that this doctrine is one that is passed on through teaching rather than just solo study. I was taught it, and I saw it. Sister heir was taught it, and she saw it.

It has been a huge eye opener for both of us, and I think that is why we talk about it every chance we get!

Someone on the internet made me really mad, but were very very patient with me. A guy and his dad. I'm glad they took their time with me.

Question: what fellowship is there apart from fellowship of the mystery? Is it really possible and, if so, on what basis? Yes, all believers are organically united in Christ, and so we do have a fellowship whether we know it or not. But what if they don't actually get that we are one?

Even if someone does as Jerry and goes with "dispensation of the mystery," the question remains. If we agree with others on the saving Gospel of grace but pretty much nothing else, doctrinally...well, Paul doesn't say "fellowship of the Gospel." You see where I'm going. An open question for whomever.

 

[Danoh]

I once visited a Mid-Acts assembly for a time where two factions were divided against both each other and a third group that wanted no part in said divisiveness.

The issue the two were divided with one another being each's position on the book of Hebrews.

Both also had issue with a third group for the third group's refusal to allow such issues to be an issue.

Another time two groups within a different Mid-Acts assembly were rather nasty with one another over the Lord's Supper.

Again, a third group refused to allow any of that to be an issue.

Another assembly completely wiped any record of a former member's many contributions when that member moved on to another Mid-Acts assembly.

I've run into like kinds of scandolous behavior on the part of other Mid-Acts assemblies.

Fellowship of the mystery? What is that?

Supposedly, it is the key to peace and harmony.

Ask any of the above individuals I mentioned and they will each assert this key.

Blind to their hypocrisy.

Too often this so called fellowship is nothing more than hypocrites in agreement with one another against their supposed own.

And this is people who supposedly "have the answer."

Can one really expect "fellowship of the mystery" any better with those who deny the mystery to begin with?

I'd still say yes.

Some within the mystery would say no, and set out to ensure that such is the case.

For such, A9D, Mid-Acts, MAD, Grace, or what have you, is merely legalism all over, under a different cloak.

I continue to find the whole thing fascinating...

 

[heir]

I once visited a Mid-Acts assembly for a time where two factions were divided against both each other and a third group that wanted no part in said divisiveness.

The issue the two were divided with one another being each's position on the book of Hebrews.

Both also had issue with a third group for the third group's refusal to allow such issues to be an issue.

Another time two groups within a different Mid-Acts assembly were rather nasty with one another over the Lord's Supper.

Again, a third group refused to allow any of that to be an issue.

Another assembly completely wiped any record of a former member's many contributions when that member moved on to another Mid-Acts assembly.

I've run into like kinds of scandolous behavior on the part of other Mid-Acts assemblies.

Fellowship of the mystery? What is that?

Supposedly, it is the key to peace and harmony.

Ask any of the above individuals I mentioned and they will each assert this key.

Blind to their hypocrisy.

Too often this so called fellowship is nothing more than hypocrites in agreement with one another against their supposed own.

And this is people who supposedly "have the answer."

Can one really expect "fellowship of the mystery" any better with those who deny the mystery to begin with?

I'd still say yes.

Some within the mystery would say no, and set out to ensure that such is the case.

For such, A9D, Mid-Acts, MAD, Grace, or what have you, is merely legalism all over, under a different cloak.

I continue to find the whole thing fascinating...

Join Paul in making all men see what it is!

 

[musterion]

I don't dispute what Danoh saw. I've seen it myself within the Grace movement (as it's called).

At the same time, Paul himself was pretty doggone exclusive. narrow-minded and inflexible about doctrinal matters.

When two saved parties are convinced beyond argument of their opposing positions, the Lord will have to straighten it out in the end. In the meantime, "...in all things, charity." At least that's what we're usually told to do...major on the minors; essentials/nonessentials; eat the fish, spit out the bones, etc.

And yet...

IF it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with ALL men.

Paul didn't exclude other believers there, and to me he seemed to get even more urgent on this point in his final letters.

If one knows and loves the truth, it will be impossible to live at peace with most unbelievers, who hate the truth and so will hate you. They won't allow for peace and you may or may not be able to abide their presence.

But if it's not possible to live in peace with certain other believers no matter how you've tried; if they don't hold fast to sound words (2 Tim 1:13); if you are convinced they walk disorderly, leave their company (2 Thess 3:6). Is tolerating error, by showing charity toward those who err, really charity? Do we condone their error by maintaining our presence among them? I dunno...asking.

 

[Danoh]

I was once invited to preach the Cross at a Baptist held event.

They knew where I stood - the Mystery - and were very, very unfriendly about the idea of my being allowed to preach.

Their own Pastor intervened, saying "the Grace people understod how to preach the Cross better than most."

He was one of the most gracious people I have ever met.

A Baptist Preacher through and through, up in years and set in his doctrine, he was even more set in his "more noble" manner of focusing on "those things which make for peace," in the midst of difference.

I never forgot his fine example of fellowship during such moments...

Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

 

[Danoh]

Join Paul in making all men see what it is!

Lol; I take it you've not been reading my posts.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I don't believe the fellowship of the mystery is necessarily about grace believers getting along, but rather the fellowship of the twain that were made one by the mystery


Eph 3
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

 

[heir]

I don't believe the fellowship of the mystery is necessarily about grace believers getting along, but rather the fellowship of the twain that were made one by the mystery


Eph 3
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Yes! Thank you! :BRAVO:

 

[heir]

Lol; I take it you've not been reading my posts.

I know what you don't seeing you refuse to see the distinction between the mystery of Christ and of the gospel and of the two Gentiles. I think it's time you join Paul in making all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery. Don't you?

 

[Danoh]

I know what you don't seeing you refuse to see the distinction between the mystery of Christ and of the gospel and of the two Gentiles. I think it's time you join Paul in making all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery. Don't you?

Sometime ago, while visiting a Grace assembly, when I mentioned where I was from, I was right away warned to stay away from so and so (another Grace Pastor).

What I heard that day about this other Pastor was what I knew to be lies.

All because some insist others must subscribe to their view or find themselves ostracized by their supposed own.

Obviously, I've had my share of "the key to peace" that preaching Christ as Paul did is supposed to enable.

I've learned something from all those poor showings of Grace...

Given the great amount of differing information I am sure you and I each look at those things from, we will differ on your above and other things.

And I am fine with that. You are where you are; I, where I am.

I, for one, cannot subscribe to another holding a view I hold to just because I hold to said view.

I can bring it up; point it out; attempt to explore it, or what have you; but at the end of the day, I remain resolved that each embrace what they embrace only because they have been fully persuaded in their own mind about it.

Personally, I find I learn more from the opposition from this perspective than being insistent might allow.

I am fine with that.

The best to you in this, sis.

 

[Totton Linnet]

He made of twain one new man


...at the cross