Bob Enyart is a great man

[Granite]

Nin, I was thinking of posts 51 and 57.

Just...just cold. Cold and callous.

Where's the love of the creation, its expression? Love for beauty, or respect for it? Beanie goes out on a limb and he gets mocked. What he said was perfectly true. All he got was grief.

There's some kind of brutalism to this attitude that I just find flabbergasting.

 

[beanieboy]

Yes.
Yes. I shoot birds all the time. He values us more than birds. He has given us dominion over the animals. We must be wise with that dominion (i.e. don't hunt animals to extinction).
But no life is as important as human life. They are all inferior.

We have to agree to disagree.
Buddhists don't see a point with ending a life, simply because you can. No animal randomly kills for no reason, so if we are superior to animals, as you say, I can't imagine why we would choose to kill for entertainment.

My father took us fishing, but we were expected to treat the fish with as much humanity as we could - quickly take off the hook, keep them in the water while we caught more, their head was chopped off quickly to make their death fast. My brother, in an effort to take the fish off the hook without the fish hurting his hands with his fin, cast the fish out onto the water so it hit the water hard, and stunned it. My father was furious. Although he was catching the fish, even he understood that this was wrong. And simply killing the fish would be wasteful. He was livid at my cousins who were flushing frogs down a toilet. I have a great deal of respect for him in that way.

You say that God approves of you randomly killing birds that you are not using for food, and justify it with "dominion over." Does that mean, have disregard for, to kill unnecessarily, to waste?

 

[JoyfulRook]

You say that God approves of you randomly killing birds that you are not using for food,

Wait, Wait, Wait. I never said that. I said I kill birds all the time. When they are Game Birds we eat them. However, when I'm just shooting Starlings and Grackles we don't eat them. They are pest birds. Same with the wild rabbits that eat our grass and spread mites to our grass. I'm not killing for no reason. We have an ant problem by our house and we have poisoned them. Would you say any of this is wrong?

 

[Nineveh]

Nin, I was thinking of posts 51 and 57.

Ok, so why address your post to me then?

 

[beanieboy]

Oh brother! I need a barf bag. Leave it to a homo to say something so wimpy!

God creates the universe. What does Poly create?
God has always existed. Poly has a time line, a beginning.
God can make the impossible impossible. Poly is restricted to the possible.
God exists everywhere. Poly exists in one country, in one state, in one city, in one house.

You don't think me looking at a caterpillar is the same way God perceives us?

And if that God loves us, why would he, with our petty lives?

Yet he does, so you cannot extend that consideration to other living things?

 

[docrob57]

Nin, I was thinking of posts 51 and 57.

Just...just cold. Cold and callous.

Where's the love of the creation, its expression? Love for beauty, or respect for it? Beanie goes out on a limb and he gets mocked. What he said was perfectly true. All he got was grief.

There's some kind of brutalism to this attitude that I just find flabbergasting.

I really think it is an attitude put on to irritate leftist environmentalist. I would not be too flabbergasted if I were you.

 

[JoyfulRook]

My father took us fishing, but we were expected to treat the fish with as much humanity as we could - quickly take off the hook, keep them in the water while we caught more, their head was chopped off quickly to make their death fast. My brother, in an effort to take the fish off the hook without the fish hurting his hands with his fin, cast the fish out onto the water so it hit the water hard, and stunned it. My father was furious. Although he was catching the fish, even he understood that this was wrong. And simply killing the fish would be wasteful.

That is unnecessary. You don't have to give the animals you are going to kill a "lethal injection" to be more humane. If an animal is dying you can put it out of it's misery. However you don't need to go to an extreme to be humane to animals.

 

[beanieboy]

Wait, Wait, Wait. I never said that. I said I kill birds all the time. When they are Game Birds we eat them. However, when I'm just shooting Starlings and Grackles we don't eat them. They are pest birds. Same with the wild rabbits that eat our grass and spread mites to our grass. I'm not killing for no reason. We have an ant problem by our house and we have poisoned them. Would you say any of this is wrong?

No, no.
I misunderstood.
I understand shooting pests (there were squirrels that used to gnaw through cabins at a camp I was at, and one counselor would hunt them.) Eating game birds is killing for food.

I knew of people that would take their BB gun into the woods, and just randomly shoot sparrows, etc. There was no point. And people who shot buffalo from trains for sport, where they would decay in the open sun.

That's what I thought you were saying.

We actually agree.

 

[beanieboy]

That is unnecessary. You don't have to give the animals you are going to kill a "lethal injection" to be more humane. If an animal is dying you can put it out of it's misery. However you don't need to go to an extreme to be humane to animals.

He didn't give it a lethal injection, nor did he torture the fish for fun.
He was humane in that he a)took the hook out quickly, b) put in on a stringer and put it back in the water so that it could breathe, and c) killed it quickly.

That's all I said.

That is humane.

 

[Servo]

Was post #40 ever addressed by Bean-o? Maybe I missed it?

 

[beanieboy]

In your world view, what does being human have to do with it? It IS LIFE, is it not?

I though all LIFE was sacred in the Buddhist view.....

I said that all life was sacred, and that I am pro-life.
What does being human have to do with it?
It is on that basis that pro-lifers and pro-choicers argue. Prochoicers say that it isn't a human, where as, pro-lifers think a 1 day old fetus is as human as a new born.

Because of that, they see the issue differently.

So, do I see all life as sacred? Sure.
Do I think that a soul enters into a embryo at the time of conception?
That a good question that I don't have an answer for.

Buddhists believe that you can reincarnate into an animal - in a sense, de-evolve.
So, I respect all forms of life.

 

[Turbo]

beanieboy,

Do you think abortion should be legal or illegal?

 

[beanieboy]

beanieboy,

Do you think abortion should be legal or illegal?

Illegal, and that we as a society should offer financial and social solutions to unplanned pregnancies.

 

[Turbo]

Illegal,

:up:

and that we as a society should offer financial and social solutions to unplanned pregnancies.

Should that include government welfare programs?

 

[beanieboy]

:up: Should that include government welfare programs?

I don't know.

It should include some type of support.

What would you suggest for a 18 year old that is pregnant, isn't married, her boyfriend left her, and her parents refuse to help support her?

In that kind of case, how do you help a single unwed parent, if you insist that she have the child?

 

[Turbo]

I don't know.

It should include some type of support.

What would you suggest for a 18 year old that is pregnant, isn't married, her boyfriend left her, and her parents refuse to help support her?

In that kind of case, how do you help a single unwed parent, if you insist that she have the child?

One simple solution would be for her to allow a married couple abopt her child. There is no shortage of married couple who are willing to adopt, and babies need a mother and a father.

A non-solution would be for the government to take her neighbors' money and give it to her. Not only is would that be theft, but it would be terribly damaging to the young woman and encourage other girls to get themselves into the same situation.

 

[beanieboy]

One simple solution would be for her to allow a married couple abopt her child. There is no shortage of married couple who are willing to adopt, and babies need a mother and a father.

A non-solution would be for the government to take her neighbors' money and give it to her. Not only is would that be theft, but it would be terribly damaging to the young woman and encourage other girls to get themselves into the same situation.

That's one good solution.
My brother and sister in law adopted a child from a young girl who was pregnant.

What would you suggest, hypothetically, if there was a shortage of families wanting to adopt?

 

[Granite]

Ok, so why address your post to me then?

Oh, my mistake, shoulda been Doc Robert.

 

[Turbo]

That's one good solution.
My brother and sister in law adopted a child from a young girl who was pregnant.

What would you suggest, hypothetically, if there was a shortage of families wanting to adopt?

She could do any number of things.

She could seek help from her family (other than her parents).

What if, hypothetically, she had no family members who were willing to help?

She could seek help from her friends and neighbors.

What if, hypothetically, she had no friends or neighbors who were willing to help?

We could go on and on like this, but the answer would never become, "She should steal the resources she needs from her neighbors (with the government's help)," just as it will never become, "She should murder her baby (with the government's permission)."

 

[Nineveh]

Oh, my mistake, shoulda been Doc Robert.

Okey dokey, no problem