Benefit of trinity
- Thread starter jaybird
- Start date
jaybird
New member
haha Meshak you really know how to stir up the controversy.
Lon
Well-known member
I believe the benefit is to God. Men would have a different relationship between God and man, respectively (more on this next sentence). Others insist salvation is at stake. It makes the contention of primary and essential doctrine concern.
I don't believe there is a benefit. It isn't honoring the Son 'just as' we honor the Father. John 5:23
I think the downside is that the Son is NOT honored just as the Father, but below Him and not with proper adoration and esteem.
Perhaps an Arian or Unitarian could answer. I see no benefit. It makes us more autonomous from God as far as I can see Colossians 1:17 John 15:5
keypurr
Well-known member
Only YHWH is the true God to think otherwise would be to break his commandments, God sent his son to teach us about himself.
The Trinity came from the pagans and enforced into the early church in the fourth century.
One must choose between what God tells us and what the early fathers did to please the pagan Emperor.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
Lon
Well-known member
Well, you are tipping your hand as to where you adhere. Question: Would it be a grave error to be presumptuous? 1John 5:12 Matthew 7:21 says "I" never knew you, not "God" never knew you. Think about John 10:30. Even when Phillip asked 'show us the Father,' The Lord Jesus Christ asked 'how can you say show us the Father???" :doh: John 14:9 "Phillip, don't you know me????"
During incredibly important teaching, we need to be REALLY paying attention. I think God can save one who is inept, but to the one being lazy BUT having the ability to study and pay attention, that man/woman is being an unfaithful steward. Philippians 2:9-11 Such is WELL above any mere man. This is a 'oneness' as scripture says. John 17:21 Notice the prayer is that you and I, normal people, would be 'one' AS the Son and Father are one. Note two things: We will never be 'one' with the Father. Isaiah 55:8,9 Only Jesus can. It is an expression of what we see and mean by Triune. You and I can be on par with one another. Many wrongfully think 'we' will be on par with God. That was and is Satan's downfall. No scripture can possibly mean that. We all need to guard against Satan's errors and presumptions. Isaiah 14:14 If it is a sin for you and I and Satan and NOT for the Lord Jesus Christ, We MUST rethink what that means. Most Trinitarians do, by this token so I'm giving you reasons why. In this, the one that has the Son, then, really does have life. "Depart from me 'I' never knew you means we'd better get this particular right. In Our Lord, Savior and God. Titus 2:13 Titus HAS to be referring to the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior and God, btw. Isaiah 43:11
Lon
Well-known member
You made a 'logic' error here. It is an 'assumption.' YHWH means "God." You argue the Lord Jesus Christ is not YHWH as if He is a man, that He is constrained by flesh and our "Physical" three dimensional thinking. God is well beyond your and my incredibly finite thinking and theories. Whatever is 'impossible' for you isn't for God, Keypurr. Matthew 19:26
Meh, says you. John 1:1; 20:28 say differently (among many scriptures all listed for your perusal in my non-debate thread. Read it. Your accusation is remiss.
Nope. Pure speculation and assertions of your guesses and imaginings. I've been all over the Church Fathers. Some had juvenile theologies, but that doesn't mean they remained there. You realize don't you, that a few of them didn't have access to the Gospel of John, for instance.
oatmeal
Well-known member
If you do believe it you will be in the majority in this website and in Christendom in general. However truth is given by God not by popular vote.
If you do not believe in it, the benefits are many, possibly more than can be listed.
Not in any order:
1. God remains supreme as the one true God
2. Jesus Christ the son of God is the perfect example of what God designed humans to be capable of when they believe and love God our heavenly Father.
3. People would have the rightly divided word of truth instead of error and confusion.
4. Our redemption would be real instead of being based on false pretenses
That should be enough for now.
Although I stated in the beginning of this post that the list is in no particular order, I will state that the list is in the proper order.
After all, we are are to love God with all our heart and all our soul and with all our strength and with all our mind.
Knowing that Jesus the anointed is not "God the Son" but rather the son of God lets us distinguish who should be the recipient of our believing the first and great commandment.
Jesus Christ does not qualify to be the recipient the first and great commandment for he is not the Lord our God, but the son of the Lord our God.
Thus we give God only what is due to God only.
Jesus Christ is one of the neighbors who we love as we love ourselves.
Thus we keep our priorities straight without making an idol out of the son of God.
To elaborate on point 4, the Passover lamb was to be chosen out of the flock. God is not part of the flock. Jesus Christ as the prophet of whom Moses said, God would raise him up out from the brethren, God is not a brethren, God is God, our brothers are human, so Jesus is human, not God
So again illustrating the thinking mind can recognize that things or beings that are different are different, not the same.
Thus we please God for distinguishing between and believing God's testimony regarding himself, and regarding His son
Last edited:
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
why do you guys argue so much about the doctrines?
so much so that you persecute fellow Jesus' servants because they don't agree with your doctrines.
So I guess it is nothing good come out of this doctrine becaseu of above reason.
Jesus says we know them by their fruit.
Jesus does not care how much you know or knowledge of the Scripture if we don't have the fruit of Spirit.
my two cents.
so much so that you persecute fellow Jesus' servants because they don't agree with your doctrines.
So I guess it is nothing good come out of this doctrine becaseu of above reason.
Jesus says we know them by their fruit.
Jesus does not care how much you know or knowledge of the Scripture if we don't have the fruit of Spirit.
my two cents.
I said
There is rules given to us to find the truth in the Word. Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses. If one follows these rules of believing they will grow in knowledge.
If one does not follow these rules they will grow in deception. It is that simple. And trinity is no where in the whole bible.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
jaybird
New member
im not a big believer in the trinity so there you are. i try not to be anti trin, im not going to tell you your going to hell for believing it, or not a Christian, unlike what i have been called.
IMO honoring the Son would be accepting He was the Christ, accepting His authority given to Him by the Father.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Jesus Christ being human only destroys the fallacy that God's design for man as weak and inept, ie, commonly stated as "mere man" is exactly that, a fallacy.
After all, After God was done with his works in Genesis 1 including man and woman, He said it was all what?
a. mere, weak and inept
b. good, even very good.
God's design for man is very good.
Part of that very good is the giving of free will, ie, the ability to make decisions and to act upon them, which of course is a two sided coin.
Man can choose to do good by believing, obeying and loving God or do the weak, inept and mere by not believing, obeying and loving God.
We, most often see the weak and inept but we have many witnesses of God being pleased with the actions of believers as in Hebrews 11 where God points out some the them and what they did that pleased God.
Jesus Christ could have been a mere man, but he chose to believe, obey and love God first and foremost with all his heart and all his soul and with all his strength and with all his mind.
Lon
Well-known member
Right, but opinions aren't facts or truth. Let me ask you to reread my post, meditate upon the scriptures and weigh the warnings therein.
I'll pray as you do so. We are trying to follow Him, not follow our own ideas and opinions. I agree with Modalists/Oneness Pentecostals on about half of their theology, and I agree with Arians/Unitarians on about half of their theology, to the extent that both are expressly and pedantically given in scripture. The Modalists are right, there is ONLY one God. Unitarians are right: The Lord Jesus Christ is not the Father, and in the flesh, has a God. John 1:1 conflates what would be simple for an Arian/Unitarian however (as do John 8:58 and 20:28) "was God" AND was somehow 'with God' at the same time. I can't be beside myself, you can't be beside yourself. Somehow, God can. Again, if we are to honor the Son, we'd have to give Him His exact due. "Just as the Father" means 'exactly as.' If you really understand that scripture, it HAS to be an equation, an equatedness on par. There is no way 'just as' can mean anything else. Again, prayerfully submitted, that we'd both truly honor the Son. -Lon
jaybird
New member
my opinion is not the final authority for sure, but if i cant trust the spirit to lead me to an opinion then i am left with following a group to make an opinion rather than the spirit.
if a trinitarian and unitarian both die and go to heaven, and both reached their opinions because they were seeking the Father just as Jesus taught, i dont think they are going to be judged that harshly if one made a mistake in his theology.
Lon
Well-known member
Jeremiah 29:13 Seeking Him fervently, is how we'd find Him. 1John 5:12 Matthew 7:23
We should read more (and more) opinionate less. We need to know the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:2 John 5:23