Baptism of Water for Babies and Children

[Jerry Shugart]

Again, babies are born without the knowledge of God and inclined to negativity.

Are you saying that a baby emerges from the womb dead in sin?

 

[cgaviria]

Babies do sin, they are human and think wrong sometimes, they think negatively. They might not even feel loved by their own parents. They might take things wrongly. They do not yet understand to forgive, etc. They do not know God and need to be taught about God as all people do.

Infant baptism interferes with people knowing and obeying the Truth. Infant baptism confuses non-Christians and those who want to be a Christian. Many people baptized as an infant do not understand why they do not really know the Lord. Those baptized as infants do not usually walk the path that Jesus teaches…unless they learn more of the truth later. Infant baptism has been confusing millions of people for years. It is more serious of an issue that most don't realize.

Babies do not sin, for even Jesus Christ had a time when he became a child that he finally knew to choose good as opposed to evil,

For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. (Isaiah 7:16 [KJV])

 

[cgaviria]

Water baptism is a ceremony, it is the time one makes the pledge to God that he will live for Him.

Babies cannot do that.

See 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

When a person gets water baptized, standing in the water the believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.

Romans explain this perfectly.

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Did you read what Paul says? Paul says don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Babies do not know.

Infants cannot make a promise. Moreover, no one, not even the infant’s parents can make a promise for their child, nor can anyone make a promise for anyone else.
Notice that when children were brought to Jesus and the disciples, the disciples turned them away?
Jesus said let them come to him, but he did not say to baptize them, he placed his hands on them.

Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

Do you not know that it is God who has made the choice for the baby already? For whoever he has chosen he has already chosen from the before the formation of the world? Therefore, let not the baptism of water be prevented from the baby, for it is not by his own choice, or lack of choice, that he is delivered, but by the choice of God.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you not know that it is God who has made the choice for the baby already? For whoever he has chosen he has already chosen from the before the formation of the world? Therefore, let not the baptism of water be prevented from the baby, for it is not by his own choice, or lack of choice, that he is delivered, but by the choice of God.

You speak nonsense.

You have listened to an array of false teachers.

Even if what you said is true, and it is not, but even if it were, you still have not disproved what I said, and you still have not proved that it is right to go against God and baptize infants.

No one enters Gods grace until they believe and repent of their sins.

Babies cannot do that.

 

[God's Truth]

Are you saying that a baby emerges from the womb dead in sin?

You do not understand the scripture about being dead in sin.

You are tainted with the teachings of men who got it wrong.

 

[cgaviria]

You speak nonsense.

You have listened to an array of false teachers.

Even if what you said is true, and it is not, but even if it were, you still have not disproved what I said, and you still have not proved that it is right to go against God and baptize infants.

No one enters Gods grace until they believe and repent of their sins.

Babies cannot do that.

It is not true that God has chosen before the foundation of the world?

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [NIV])

 

[God's Truth]

It is not true that God has chosen before the foundation of the world?

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [NIV])

God made the plan of salvation before the creation of the world.

If a person is taught wrong their whole life, and then hears the truth about God and then obeys and is then saved, has that not proven that you are wrong that the truth matters always?

 

[cgaviria]

God made the plan of salvation before the creation of the world.

If a person is taught wrong their whole life, and then hears the truth about God and then obeys and is then saved, has that not proven that you are wrong that the truth matters always?

Its not just "the plan of salvation" as you call it, God chose who will be saved.

 

[jamie]

How does baptism serve as a marriage to Christ?

Baptism marks the beginning of a new life, a life with Jesus Christ as leader.

 

[jsanford108]

lol, it is you that has the amended reading. Baptidzo means immersion, but then again men never want to do what God says to do they want to do it their own way.

You are simply in denial. It seems you prefer a state of ignorance in order to support illogical doctrines. There is a glaring lack of evidence and rationale. Which makes sense when one accepts hypocritical beliefs, invented by men.

Infant baptism can be easily traced back to the apostles. It is logical when one considers the origins being a desert culture. It is biblically supported in Acts (despite a denial, yet expectation for explicit terms), and is called the new covenant circumcision.

Furthermore, infant baptism has a spiritual purpose. "Immersion only" is reducing baptism to mere symbolism (one of many of the unbiblical and contradictory doctrines that formed since Luther).


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[dodge]

You are simply in denial. It seems you prefer a state of ignorance in order to support illogical doctrines. There is a glaring lack of evidence and rationale. Which makes sense when one accepts hypocritical beliefs, invented by men.

Infant baptism can be easily traced back to the apostles. It is logical when one considers the origins being a desert culture. It is biblically supported in Acts (despite a denial, yet expectation for explicit terms), and is called the new covenant circumcision.

Furthermore, infant baptism has a spiritual purpose. "Immersion only" is reducing baptism to mere symbolism (one of many of the unbiblical and contradictory doctrines that formed since Luther).


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

lol, those that follow God would do well to get what they believe from scriptures NOT from folks with an agenda who generally follow a buck and other men with their own agendas.

Yet with all of your UN-scriptural and UN-supported noise YOU cannot produce even one verse where a baby was baptized. Shows more that you follow men and have not done due diligence in God's word and nothing more. Your loss not mine.

 

[dodge]

Babies do not sin, for even Jesus Christ had a time when he became a child that he finally knew to choose good as opposed to evil,

For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. (Isaiah 7:16 [KJV])

Why are you ignoring the "difference" in the how of Jesus was born ? Could it be because it exposes the lie you expound and promote ?

 

[God's Truth]

Its not just "the plan of salvation" as you call it, God chose who will be saved.

God chooses those WHO BELIEVE AND OBEY.

 

[God's Truth]

Baptism marks the beginning of a new life, a life with Jesus Christ as leader.

I agree that it is very much like a marriage.

Water baptism is a ceremony; however, it is not so much the ceremony as it is what is in one's heart.

 

[jsanford108]

Yet with all of your UN-scriptural and UN-supported noise YOU cannot produce even one verse where a baby was baptized. Shows more that you follow men and have not done due diligence in God's word and nothing more. Your loss not mine.

You seem to ignore evidence against you. Allow me to once again provide biblical examples where infants would have been baptized.

Acts 2:37-41

Acts 10:24-48 Baptism of Cornelius' entire household. Are infants and babies not part of a household?

Acts 16:15-35 Baptism of Lydia's entire family. "she was baptized, and her household." The keeper of the prison. "baptized, he and all his, straightway."

1 Cor 7:14 "....else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

Col 2:11-12 New Covenant Circumcision illustration. Adults can be circumcised, yes. But do not most circumcisions occur shortly after birth?

Who is ignoring clear evidence here? You expect explicit words denoting "infant" or "baby," yet you cannot produce the explicit words "adult" or the like? This is hypocritical on your part and demonstrates the entire nature of your doctrine.

 

[dodge]

jsanford108;

Who is ignoring clear evidence here? You expect explicit words denoting "infant" or "baby," yet you cannot produce the explicit words "adult" or the like? This is hypocritical on your part and demonstrates the entire nature of your doctrine.

The one ignoring clear evidence is YOU.

Find me ONE verse where the order is ever reversed in scripture.

Mar 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Question: since scripture says repent and be baptized in several places and the verse I provided you above says believe and baptized can a baby repent or believe ? You follow traditions of men not scripture.

 

[jsanford108]

The one ignoring clear evidence is YOU.

Find me ONE verse where the order is ever reversed in scripture.

Mar 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Question: since scripture says repent and be baptized in several places and the verse I provided you above says believe and baptized can a baby repent or believe ? You follow traditions of men not scripture.

It has a really basic reasoning. "Repent and be baptized" is always aimed at adults, who are non-Christian. Thus, repentance makes sense. So, if the sin of following of alternate, non-Christian ways is removed, repentance is thus removed, leaving only....baptism.

Note that never when talking to His Disciples or apostles does Christ, or any disciple thereafter, teach "repent and be baptized." It is only ever instructed to non-Christians.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[jsanford108]

Dodge,

You are more concerned with persecution of the RCC than anything else. Your own digital signature is evidence of this. But I can say with certainty that you do not assemble your evidence against Catholicism from catholic sources. But rather, second hand sources, which distort truth and promote the same vehemence for Catholicism that you hold.

You, and other anti-Catholics, read what you desire into Scripture, and just deny what is clearly stated or easily (and obviously) inferred.

If Christ had said "my church will be catholic," you would argue that "catholic means universal and not that unholy Roman Catholic Church!"

What I always charge people with, both Catholic or Protestant, is to read Scripture as it is, absent of bias or preconceived doctrines.

So read Scripture simply as it is written. And if you are going to hate Catholics, at least have an accurate idea of what they teach by reviewing Catholic material and sources. This will make you grow in the knowledge of God and make you at least competent in forming logical (being hopeful here) arguments against Catholicism. A course in logic and reason would also help.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[dodge]

It has a really basic reasoning. "Repent and be baptized" is always aimed at adults, who are non-Christian. Thus, repentance makes sense. So, if the sin of following of alternate, non-Christian ways is removed, repentance is thus removed, leaving only....baptism.

Note that never when talking to His Disciples or apostles does Christ, or any disciple thereafter, teach "repent and be baptized." It is only ever instructed to non-Christians.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Again baptism is after believing and repenting. There is no infant baptism is ALL of scripture. The only way anyone baptizes infants is through TRADITION, which UN-scriptural.

 

[dodge]

jsanford108;4961570]Dodge,

You are more concerned with persecution of the RCC than anything else. Your own digital signature is evidence of this. But I can say with certainty that you do not assemble your evidence against Catholicism from catholic sources. But rather, second hand sources, which distort truth and promote the same vehemence for Catholicism that you hold.

sadly, my sig. is exactly what the R.C.C. does !

lol, sure the Roman Catholic sources justify their idolatry,pope worship,Mary worship, and ignoring of scripture to follow their traditions. Would you expect the R.C.C to do otherwise ?

You, and other anti-Catholics, read what you desire into Scripture, and just deny what is clearly stated or easily (and obviously) inferred.

Best case of justification to ignore scripture and follow man made traditions to date.
If Christ had said "my church will be catholic," you would argue that "catholic means universal and not that unholy Roman Catholic Church!"

What I always charge people with, both Catholic or Protestant, is to read Scripture as it is, absent of bias or preconceived doctrines.

That is how those not caught up in infant baptism, Mary worship, pope worship,idolatry, depending on human priests, and ignoring scripture have arrived at that place by putting God and His word first.

So read Scripture simply as it is written. And if you are going to hate Catholics, at least have an accurate idea of what they teach by reviewing Catholic material and sources. This will make you grow in the knowledge of God and make you at least competent in forming logical (being hopeful here) arguments against Catholicism. A course in logic and reason would also help.

I don't hate anyone even R.C.'s I do however hate that they follow man made traditions and not God nor scripture.