Atheists, do you hope you're right?

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Why not? And why-oh-why this assumption that existence itself must have been "created"? We all agree that there is existence, so all you are doing is adding and extra unseen, mysterious layer based on ancient holy books. But then, why stop there? Surly, following the same logic, the entity that created existence must itself have been created, which of course, leads to an infinite regress. And what exactly is infinity anyway to the minds of evolved apes with brains made of meat? The whole thing just disappears up its own rear given a little thought.

All we know for sure is that there is existence. No one knows anything about the state of existence pre Big Bang, not Hawking or any theologian or anyone. And there is no logical reason to assume that everything was poofed into existence at some point via supernatural magic. That's just superstition.

Time waits for no one - energy cannot be created or destroyed - given the existence of energy and matter (which we know are real) then space between events follows logically. How could it not?

Why assume this has ever been any different? And why not assume that, given deep time, anything can happen?

So with our logic we see cause and effect which would go on for infinity as you say, which then off course breaks down cause and effect to one uncaused phenomena. God. Who is beyond all that we can experience and may in fact as some physicists guess lie in another dimension beyond our perception.

 

[noguru]

Not do you think you're right--do you hope that you are right that there is no God and therefore no ultimate justice in the afterlife?

I was an agnostic/atheist for 17 years. What brought me back to theism was the hope that someday people like you will be confronted with your continuous stubborn errors on earth. Because to think that you will just sink further into oblivion without ever admitting your errors was an unbearable thought for me.

Atheists accept that your stubborn errors here won't really matter in the long run anyway. But for me it is how you currently walk in that air of false superiority (of course you like to give lip service to God) that just gets my goat.

 

[alwight]

You do not care about an ultimate justice? 2 Thess 1:9

I accept that life is basically unfair and doesn't really last too long and then that's the end, nothing more.
I suggest however that we deal with this, the one life that we know we have, including the correction and prevention of injustice as best we can, while we can.
Imo claims of a supposed "ultimate justice" is perhaps religion's biggest lie and dirty trick.lain:

 

[noguru]

Imagine the most glorious rich earthly King suffering a horrendous death for His love of those who mocked and despised Him. This describes the one true God.

Logically and based on "traditional" interpretations of scripture and the Gospel, an omniscient and omnipotent God would have sacrificed absolutely nothing by submitting to the torture and dying on the cross. And of course one has to wonder why a God who experienced that would subject those he supposedly loves to an eternity of suffering. But you folks never seem to have the intestinal fortitude to ask tough questions like that.

 

[noguru]

You do not care about an ultimate justice?

I care that my mother has to mentally decline with AC dementia and just die, but there is little I can do about her ultimate demise.

And your ideas of "justice" are not what I would call justice. If there were truly justice, you would freely admit when you are wrong.

 

[noguru]

I accept that life is basically unfair and doesn't really last too long and then that's the end, nothing more.
I suggest however that we deal with this, the one life that we know we have, including the correction and prevention of injustice as best we can, while we can.
Imo claims of a supposed "ultimate justice" is perhaps religion's biggest lie and dirty trick.lain:

It is just another tool they (ab)use to try to intimidate others into submission to their flaky ideas.

 

[noguru]

It takes just an enormous amount of faith to believe Hawking that all that exists in our universe just created itself for no purpose or reason.

That is not what the evidence indicates. But you will never admit when you are wrong.

 

[noguru]

You'll get a glimpse into their heart. :sherlock:

:up:

Well it certainly beats the all glimpses we have had into your heart.

 

[Daniel1611]

It is just another tool they (ab)use to try to intimidate others into submission to their flaky ideas.

Who is doing the intimidating?

Maybe the ones handing out fines and ruining businesses over cakes.

The ones ridiculing anyone who doesn't believe in foolish atheist nonsense.

The secular humanists are bullies. They are intolerant bullies. They claim they just don't believe in religion. But they sure spend a lot of time attacking Christianity. They're cool with every other religion, they just hate Jesus Christ. Those are the ones trying to intimidate people. The sodomite bullies.

 

[Town Heretic]

What an atheist may hope for imo isn't necessarily what must therefore be believed as actually true.

I like the sentiment, but it doesn't really work well with the conclusion.

Hoping for a god to exist doesn't negate an atheistic conclusion.

You may have missed my point, but I'm reading along so let's see.

If I've understood you TH, you perhaps think that the benefits of believing in God make disbelief somewhat invalid, while I don't agree.

Ah. What I believe is that the benefits of belief are superior to holding a contrary view and that there being no empirical and objective means to settle the issue, embracing a want in that particular runs contrary to reason and your own good. It is to begin with an argument from utility and an appeal to the choice that best serves our being.

At the very least faith is an enormous, positive and extended middle finger to the alternative and a rational, real possibility of more. I'm deadly disinterested in the coy fumbling of "Which?" because at the very least that which is answered by, "Your highest and best estimation of God."

Now many of my brethren will find that objectionable. I don't care. No one learns the joy of running by beginning with a marathon. M. Scott Peck began his spiritual quest as an atheist, then a Buddhist and finally a Christian.

I think we have no reason to be here if we can somehow make ourselves believe something because it is personally beneficial and not because it is necessarily true.

When the negative which is no more or less certain than the better context a reasonable man chooses the better context. If we accept defeatism, nihilism, a pointless, happenstance existence then and only then do we have no reason to be here.

Atheists aren't typically attracted to nihilism or godlessness, atheism is merely a conclusion of disbelief made from a perceived lack of godly evidence. An atheist's position is typically provisional until something changes that perception.

In my less than narrow experience that often isn't the case. It's frequently as not rooted in a demand that is by its nature an impossibility, not because the thing considered is impossible, but because the request is.

Maybe, at the heart of it, what an atheist really hopes for is a miracle.

 

[exminister]

You hope all of the time. When you get on an airplane you hope that the pilot is not going to dive bomb your plane into a mountain.

Everyone has faith. :dizzy: You are your own god or God is your God (Ps. 73:6).

That is not faith. That is expectation. I expect a pilot to fly the plane to the destination I paid for. That statistically is what happens. I expect it. Faith in God is entirely different. I can believe and trust in God when everything is contrary to it. The book of Job is a great example of faith. No one around Job believed he should have faith in God. They said curse God and die. But in spite of all evidence Job believed. Abraham, Moses, Jesus and many, many more demonstrated faith in God, which is nothing like expecting your car to start in the morning. Treating faith like expectation cheapens it.

 

[noguru]

Who is doing the intimidating?

People like you, who refuse to admit when you are wrong. A person who stands up for themselves will do just that. But if reason and logic cannot convince a person of their error, then they are being a bully. Despite their attempts to try and claim divine authority.

Maybe the ones handing out fines and ruining businesses over cakes.

When people stand up for their rights, they often step on the toes of people who use to bully them. And of course the bullies love to be overly dramatic about perceived offenses. That is the MO of a bully.

The ones ridiculing anyone who doesn't believe in foolish atheist nonsense.

Right, says a flat earther. Who is convinced that atheists do not want an accurate conception of their environment.

:rotfl:

The secular humanists are bullies.

Only to the people who use to or still try to bully them.

They are intolerant bullies.

Intolerant of the intolerance that has been shown to them, by self righteous religious folk claiming divine authority for their transgressions.

They claim they just don't believe in religion.

They don't believe any religion.

But they sure spend a lot of time attacking Christianity.

They attack illogical, tyrannical Christians who try to force them into submission to their theistic ideas, yes. When a person stands up to a bully it is very often the bully who starts complaining about mistreatment.

They're cool with every other religion, they just hate Jesus Christ.

They don't hate Jesus. They are just fed up with morons like you trying to run the world with lame claims of divine authority.

Those are the ones trying to intimidate people. The sodomite bullies.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[serpentdove]

:up:

Well it certainly beats the all glimpses we have had into your heart.

:yawn: Ro 8:7, HCSB

 

[Daniel1611]

Who needs to be stood up to are the sodomites bullies who want to teach kids to be vile, filthy homos or cross dresser. Some homo is suing a bible publisher for the anti gay verses in the Bible. That's really standing up for free speech by this so called liberal.
If our country was really run by real Christians like you claim, there wouldn't be any homos in this country.

 

[noguru]

:yawn: Ro 8:7

Do you even understand that verse?

 

[noguru]

Who needs to be stood up to are the sodomites bullies who want to teach kids to be vile, filthy homos or cross dresser.

Do you have any significant evidence that homosexuality can be taught or is a choice? I certainly do not think my heterosexuality was a choice. It just seems natural to me. I am attracted to the opposite gender.

 

[noguru]

Some homo is suing a bible publisher for the anti gay verses in the Bible. That's really standing up for free speech by this so called liberal.

Citation please.

 

[Daniel1611]

Do you have any significant evidence that homosexuality can be taught or is choice? I certainly do not think my heterosexuality was a choice. It just seems natural to me. I am attracted to the opposite gender.

The Bible says being a sodomite is unnatural. That's my evidence. I dont need some sodomite researcher to pretend they have evidence for anything. I believe the Bible because it is true. If you don't believe e the Bible, you are a fool.

 

[noguru]

The Bible says being a sodomite is unnatural. That's my evidence. I dont need some sodomite researcher to pretend they have evidence for anything. I believe the Bible because it is true. If you don't believe e the Bible, you are a fool.

Folks, I rest my case.

 

[Daniel1611]

Citation please.

http://dailyheadlines.net/2015/07/g...nst-bible-publishers-over-homosexual-verses/#

Easy Google search is easy.