Nang
TOL Subscriber
Romans 3:19-12
Romans 5:12
Ephesians 2:1-3
Mark 7:21-23
I John 5:19
. . . To name only a few.
Are People Born Into This World Spiritually Alive?
- Thread starter Samie
- Start date
Romans 3:19-12
Romans 5:12
Ephesians 2:1-3
Mark 7:21-23
I John 5:19
. . . To name only a few.
None of those texts say what you want them to say that "all humans are born corrupted, guilty, and subject to sin and death". After people are born, then they become corrupt and guilty. But not born guilty and corrupt.
Try again.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
What scripture do you know of that explicitly reveals infants are born without sin. As far as I know, there was only one sinless babe born into this world.
Nope. Romans 3:23
A word of advice, Nang.
If you cite a verse or verses, don't just enumerate. Show how they say what you are saying. Case in point: You said "all humans are born corrupted, guilty, and subject to sin and death". To prove your point, you paraded verses.
You cited Rom 3:12-19:
Romans 3:12-19 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God
How does that say what you you were saying that "all humans are born corrupted, guilty, and subject to sin and death"? Those verses say that people became corrupt and guilty AFTER they were born, NOT that they were born corrupt and guilty as what you claim.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
Thee verse says that death passed upon all men because all have sinned. Sinning is done AFTER one is born. The verse does not say that death passed upon all men because all men are born guilty and corrupt.
KJV Ephesians 2:1-3 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Same story. v1 "dead in trespasses and sins" does not mean "people are born guilty and corrupt". It is AFTER they were born that they became guilty and corrupt, as v2 says that "they walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air". Walking is done AFTER one is born.
Mark 7:21-23 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: {covetousness...: Gr. covetousnesses, wickednesses} 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Same case. Not saying that people are born guilty and corrupt. They became guilty and corrupt AFTER they were born.
KJV 1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
The verse does not say "all people are born guilty and corrupt". To lie in wickedness does not mean people are born guilty and corrupt. In fact the verse tells of 2 type of people: the "we" and the "world". And that's against your proposition that "all people are born guilty and corrupt".
So your quoted verses do not say what you want them to say. Try again.
If you cite a verse or verses, don't just enumerate. Show how they say what you are saying. Case in point: You said "all humans are born corrupted, guilty, and subject to sin and death". To prove your point, you paraded verses.
You cited Rom 3:12-19:
Romans 3:12-19 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God
How does that say what you you were saying that "all humans are born corrupted, guilty, and subject to sin and death"? Those verses say that people became corrupt and guilty AFTER they were born, NOT that they were born corrupt and guilty as what you claim.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
Thee verse says that death passed upon all men because all have sinned. Sinning is done AFTER one is born. The verse does not say that death passed upon all men because all men are born guilty and corrupt.
KJV Ephesians 2:1-3 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Same story. v1 "dead in trespasses and sins" does not mean "people are born guilty and corrupt". It is AFTER they were born that they became guilty and corrupt, as v2 says that "they walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air". Walking is done AFTER one is born.
Mark 7:21-23 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: {covetousness...: Gr. covetousnesses, wickednesses} 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Same case. Not saying that people are born guilty and corrupt. They became guilty and corrupt AFTER they were born.
KJV 1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
The verse does not say "all people are born guilty and corrupt". To lie in wickedness does not mean people are born guilty and corrupt. In fact the verse tells of 2 type of people: the "we" and the "world". And that's against your proposition that "all people are born guilty and corrupt".
So your quoted verses do not say what you want them to say. Try again.
Are you asking this because you have ran out of Scriptures for your proposition that "all humans are born guilty and corrupt"?
To answer your question while waiting for your response, let's see the Bible for its definition of sin:
1. transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4
2. all unrighteousness. 1 John 5:17
3. refusal to do the good one is able to do. James 4:17
4. whatsoever not of faith. Rom 14:23
Which of the four above is a fetus culpable of? NONE? Then your proposition is false, based on those 4 verses. And there are oh so much more. The OP has some of them.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
None of the verses I gave you, supports your proposition that infants are born sinless & guiltless.
And you did not answer my question with any scripture that teaches what you claim.
Obviously you have never been properly taught about the imputation of guilt God imposed upon all Adam's seed, who are all born under the death sentence imposed due to Adam breaking covenant.
Why not focus on the good news instead of a defunct past ?
She's BACK!
Nang is a negative, cranky poster.
Scriptures define sin in at least 4 different ways:
But people had been bombarded since time immemorial by their spiritual teachers that all humans are born spiritually dead in sin; born totally depraved as per Calvinists. And majority simply believed. And the lie went on and on.
It has to stop.
God through Christ has ABSOLUTELY solved the problem of sin as far as it affects the eternal destiny of men. He devised the plan of redemption before the foundation of the world. He implemented the plan which found fulfillment in the life, death and resurrection of His Son, on the same day Adam sinned. Just like Adam when he came out from the hands of His Maker, all people are born into this world spiritually alive, all because of what God through Christ has done FOR man.
It is only AFTER a man is born that he starts doing things against the will of His Maker.
This is why people are admonished to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). And overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.
I say none. Sorry, but if one were to say that a fetus is culpable of even one of the 4, then maybe the person is not in the right frame of mind.
But people had been bombarded since time immemorial by their spiritual teachers that all humans are born spiritually dead in sin; born totally depraved as per Calvinists. And majority simply believed. And the lie went on and on.
It has to stop.
God through Christ has ABSOLUTELY solved the problem of sin as far as it affects the eternal destiny of men. He devised the plan of redemption before the foundation of the world. He implemented the plan which found fulfillment in the life, death and resurrection of His Son, on the same day Adam sinned. Just like Adam when he came out from the hands of His Maker, all people are born into this world spiritually alive, all because of what God through Christ has done FOR man.
It is only AFTER a man is born that he starts doing things against the will of His Maker.
| KJV Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. |
This is why people are admonished to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). And overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.
| KJV Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. KJV Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. |
Same old mouth; no Scriptures.
And if you give some, you just enumerate and parade them. And never mind whether those verses don't say what you want them to say. You can do better, Nang.
And your question had been answered. In fact, even before you asked. See the OP. You have not even tried to refute the issues delineated in the OP. Afraid?
Of course not. Universalism (all are saved) is unbiblical. You are already reconciled from what Adam did. All one has to do is trust what he already did.
There are 3 tenses of salvation. past, present, future.
In the past and present tenses, all benefited. In the future tense, only the overcomers will positively benefit.
I prefer Christ over Adam.
What is unbiblical is "All WILL be saved", as Universalists claim.
Made up.
You are not just aware. Here:
Past Tense:
| NKJ Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), NKJ Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God |
Present Tense:
| NKJ 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. NKJ 2 Corinthians 2:15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. |
Future Tense:
| NKJ Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. NKJ Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. NKJ Romans 5:9-10 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. |
Now you know.