Are Gods Elect ever the workers of iniquity ?

[genuineoriginal]

Again sinners Christ died for are Loved by God while theyre sinners/workers of iniquity Rom 5:8

Yes, Christ died for all sinners.

8 [FONT="]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners /workers of iniquity, Christ died for us.

So they could not be the workers of iniquity God hates in Ps 5:5 thats a contradiction in God[/FONT]

God hates the actions of the workers of iniquity.

Proverbs 6:16-19 16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.​

But God still loves mankind so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die for us.

John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

Jesus came to call workers of iniquity to repentance.

Matthew 9:13 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.​

God is commanding everyone to repent.

Acts 17:30 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:​

God is being patient with mankind because He doesn't want anyone to perish, but wants everyone to repent.

2 Peter 3:9 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

From all of this, we see that the elect come from the sinners that choose to repent.

 

[beloved57]

God hates the actions of the workers of iniquity.

Though thats true, thats not what Ps 5:5 says. In this verse God hates the persons, the workers of iniquity.

Thats not true of the workers of iniquity in Rom 5:8 God loves their persons.

Yes, Christ died for all sinners.

Theres no scripture for that statement, certainly Rom 5:8 doesnt say that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Though thats true, thats not what Ps 5:5 says. In this verse God hates the persons, the workers of iniquity.

Yes, and by looking through the rest of scriptures, it is clear that God hates the workers of iniquity that do not repent, but God loves the sinner that does repent.

Yes, Christ died for all sinners.

Theres no scripture for that statement, certainly Rom 5:8 doesnt say that.

Christ died for all sinners

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.​

 

[beloved57]

orig

Yes, and by looking through the rest of scriptures, it is clear that God hates the workers of iniquity that do not repent, but God loves the sinner that does repent.

This thread isnt about the rest of scripture, its about the elect whom God loved as ungodly sinners, workers of iniquity Rom 5:8

8 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]But God [/FONT]commendeth his love toward us[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], in that, [/FONT]while we were yet sinners,[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Christ died for us.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]How they cant be the workers of iniquity, sinners that God hates in Ps 5:5[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]That would be a contradiction in God. Rom 5:8 says nothing about while being repented God [/FONT]commendeth his love toward us[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], but while being sinners ![/FONT]

 

[beloved57]

orig

Christ died for all sinners

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Theres not a word in this passage stating that Christ died for all sinners, its all in your imagination !

 

[genuineoriginal]

This thread isnt about the rest of scripture, its about the elect whom God loved as ungodly sinners, workers of iniquity Rom 5:8

8 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]But God [/FONT]commendeth his love toward us[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], in that, [/FONT]while we were yet sinners,[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Christ died for us.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]How they cant be the workers of iniquity, sinners that God hates in Ps 5:5[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]That would be a contradiction in God. Rom 5:8 says nothing about while being repented God [/FONT]commendeth his love toward us[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], but while being sinners ![/FONT]

You think there is a contradiction because you are refusing to look at all scriptures to find out what harmonizes the two verses.
The rest of scriptures show that God hates the sinner that refuses to repent but loves the sinner that does repent.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Theres not a word in this passage stating that Christ died for all sinners, its all in your imagination !

All have sinned.

Romans 3:23 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;​

Christ died for all.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.​

Christ said that all will die unless they repent.

Luke 13:5 5 [JESUS]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.[/JESUS]​

 

[beloved57]

You think there is a contradiction because you are refusing to look at all scriptures to find out what harmonizes the two verses.
The rest of scriptures show that God hates the sinner that refuses to repent but loves the sinner that does repent.

No I dont think theres a contradiction, I know it is if the sinners God loved in Rom 5:8 are the same sinners He hates in Ps 5:5 !

 

[beloved57]

All have sinned.

Romans 3:23 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;​

Christ died for all.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.​

Christ said that all will die unless they repent.

Luke 13:5 5 [JESUS]I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.[/JESUS]​

Again 2 Cor 5:14-15 doesn't say a word about Christ dying for all sinners, furthermore I have created threads about who Christ died for specifically if you want to discuss that issue with me.

 

[genuineoriginal]

No I dont think theres a contradiction, I know it is if the sinners God loved in Rom 5:8 are the same sinners He hates in Ps 5:5 !

What makes you think they are not the same?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Again 2 Cor 5:14-15 doesn't say a word about Christ dying for all sinners

The verses say Christ died for all.
Why do you refuse to believe what they say?

 

[beloved57]

What makes you think they are not the same?

Its obvious, its common sense actually, and I already said why I believe they arent the same.

 

[beloved57]

The verses say Christ died for all.
Why do you refuse to believe what they say?

I believe what the verse says, but it doesnt say Christ died for all sinners !

 

[genuineoriginal]

I believe what the verse says, but it doesnt say Christ died for all sinners !

What is the problem?
Do you believe Christ did not die for all?

2 Corinthians 5:15 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.​

Or do you believe Christ did not die for sinners?

Romans 5:8 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

 

[john w]

As plainly stated above, for believing parents, their infant children dying in infancy are members of the outward covenant grace, so believing parents have much reason to hope, yet not demand, that their infant who dies in infancy is in heaven.

For non-believing parents, the situation is more dire, and the only "hope" they may cling to is that the Lord will do right. Then again, non-believers will never make that claim. Fortunately, one thing is certain: all elect infants dying in infancy are in heaven. Of this we can be certain.

Evasion. Non responsive.

Again-How does a Calvinist know that their "little ones" are not consigned to hell, i.e., that they are not one of "the elect?"

How do you know with infallible certainty an infant is elect? You don't.

Evasion, adding words to my argument-"infallible certainty"


That is slick.... real slick.

Gee, AMR-none of us knew, until you filled us in, that none of us are infallible. Wow.


No, the biblical definition of hope, is "confident expectation, which the LORD provides, via His book. Saved individuals receive their confident expectation, assurance, that they are saved, from the book, witnessed by the Holy Spirit of God. In contrast, Calvinists receive their alleged assurance from examining their works, their lifestyle, their Perseverance. Calvinism is just another warmed over version of Catholicism, Mormonism,.....=a works-based performance system, from the pits of hell.

As a parent, do what you ought to do: call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. Then cling to the promise of God's covenant you have entered as a believer which thereby incorporates outwardly your infant child, giving you proper warrant to hope your infant dying in infancy is heaven bound, while leaving the matter of the certain disposition of your infant child in God's hands.

That is really good news(gospel), AMR. No, you Calvinists con artists-that is bad news.

 

[beloved57]

What is the problem?
Do you believe Christ did not die for all?

2 Corinthians 5:15 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.​

Or do you believe Christ did not die for sinners?

Romans 5:8 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

If you want to discuss who i believe Christ died for i have several threads on this forum publicly stating what i believe. I have not been shy about it.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No, the biblical definition of hope, is "confident expectation, which the LORD provides, via His book. Saved individuals receive their confident expectation, assurance, that they are saved, from the book, witnessed by the Holy Spirit of God.

Who knew?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...es-Us-to-God&p=4845421&viewfull=1#post4845421

:AMR:

I guess with all the unneeded redundancy, you are assuming that you are confident all infants that die in infancy are in heaven. Of course, you continue to evade (!!) making a plain statement to that effect. Get on with it. Don't leave us in suspense.

That said, you really have no warrant from Scripture to hold that confidence. It is but wishful thinking cloaked in your own confidence.

So just describing the biblical concept of "hope" is not going to make your case. You will need to combine it with what I have plainly stated, that infants dying in infancy of believing parents is a situation giving parents a real warrant to hope per God's covenantal revelations in Scripture. No such biblical hope exists outside that restriction.

AMR

 

[john w]

Who knew?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...es-Us-to-God&p=4845421&viewfull=1#post4845421

:AMR:

I guess with all the unneeded redundancy, you are assuming that you are confident all infants that die in infancy are in heaven. Of course, you continue to evade (!!) making a plain statement to that effect. Get on with it. Don't leave us in suspense.

That said, you really have no warrant from Scripture to hold that confidence. It is but wishful thinking cloaked in your own confidence.

So just describing the biblical concept of "hope" is not going to make your case. You will need to combine it with what I have plainly stated, that infants dying in infancy of believing parents is a situation giving parents a real warrant to hope per God's covenantal revelations in Scripture. No such biblical hope exists outside that restriction.

AMR

More evasion, create a moving target, change the subject, double speak, fogging the dialogue, sophistry. Non responsive.

Again-How does a Calvinist know that their "little ones" are not consigned to hell, i.e., that they are not one of "the elect?"


That is wicked Calvism's "good news."


And stuff your "That said, you really have no warrant from Scripture to hold that confidence. It is but wishful thinking cloaked in your own confidence," as we see through your droid sound byte, and your "assert/pound the podium/declare 'victory'/return to the 'Reformed SO" con job.

 

[7djengo7]

LOL, a Reformed Christian being called cultish by a Pelagian.

Now, by 'Reformed', you mean Calvinist or Calvinistic, I take it. So, you've effectively handed us the phrase 'Calvinist Christian'. And, when we remember that you, with Spurgeon, affirm that "Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else," we see you create for yourself more ideological incoherence when you denominate yourself by that phrase. Let's take a look at your latest problem of incoherence.

You would not use the term 'Reformed Christian', a.k.a. 'Calvinist Christian', unless you think that there are also Christians who are not Calvinist. That's what you are doing by means of that phrase: you're dividing the class of all Christians into two sub-classes: those Christians who are Calvinists, on the one hand, and those Christians who are not Calvinists, on the other.

Now, by the term 'Christian', you mean a believer of the gospel; in other words, every person who is not a believer of the gospel is a person who is not a Christian. Do you deny this? Yet, according to Spurgeon, and you, Calvinism is the gospel. Now, if Calvinism is the gospel, a Calvinist is a believer of the gospel, and so, the class, Calvinists, must be one and the same as the entire class, Christians. Thus, there can be no non-Calvinists sub-class of the class, Christians.

It boils down to this: unless you just felt like handing us a redundancy in the phrase 'Reformed Christian', you have effectively divided the class, Christians, into two sub-classes:

Sub-class 1: Christians who believe the gospel (Calvinists, Reformed), and
Sub-class 2: Christians who do not believe the gospel (non-Calvinists, non-Reformed).

Now, assuming you are correct in thinking that Calvinism is the gospel, sub-class 2 is analyzable as follows:

Christians who do not believe the gospel,
[Calvinists] who do not believe the gospel,
[Believers of Calvinism] who do not believe the gospel,
[Believers of the gospel] who do not believe the gospel.

So, unless you meant your phrase, 'Reformed Christian', to be taken as a redundancy, you have divided Christians into Calvinists and non-Calvinists, and in doing so, this is the nonsense you have handed us: Believers of the gospel who are not believers of the gospel!

 

[MennoSota]

Now, by 'Reformed', you mean Calvinist or Calvinistic, I take it. So, you've effectively handed us the phrase 'Calvinist Christian'. And, when we remember that you, with Spurgeon, affirm that "Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else," we see you create for yourself more ideological incoherence when you denominate yourself by that phrase. Let's take a look at your latest problem of incoherence.

You would not use the term 'Reformed Christian', a.k.a. 'Calvinist Christian', unless you think that there are also Christians who are not Calvinist. That's what you are doing by means of that phrase: you're dividing the class of all Christians into two sub-classes: those Christians who are Calvinists, on the one hand, and those Christians who are not Calvinists, on the other.

Now, by the term 'Christian', you mean a believer of the gospel; in other words, every person who is not a believer of the gospel is a person who is not a Christian. Do you deny this? Yet, according to Spurgeon, and you, Calvinism is the gospel. Now, if Calvinism is the gospel, a Calvinist is a believer of the gospel, and so, the class, Calvinists, must be one and the same as the entire class, Christians. Thus, there can be no non-Calvinists sub-class of the class, Christians.

It boils down to this: unless you just felt like handing us a redundancy in the phrase 'Reformed Christian', you have effectively divided the class, Christians, into two sub-classes:

Sub-class 1: Christians who believe the gospel (Calvinists, Reformed), and
Sub-class 2: Christians who do not believe the gospel (non-Calvinists, non-Reformed).

Now, assuming you are correct in thinking that Calvinism is the gospel, sub-class 2 is analyzable as follows:

Christians who do not believe the gospel,
[Calvinists] who do not believe the gospel,
[Believers of Calvinism] who do not believe the gospel,
[Believers of the gospel] who do not believe the gospel.

So, unless you meant your phrase, 'Reformed Christian', to be taken as a redundancy, you have divided Christians into Calvinists and non-Calvinists, and in doing so, this is the nonsense you have handed us: Believers of the gospel who are not believers of the gospel!

LOL, reading your tortured pretzel is just too funny. I just can't take you seriously. Continue on with your fools game.