Are Calvinist, Catholics Christians?

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
There are many religions masquerading under the name of Christian that are not Christian, what they are, are counterfeits. They appear to be Christian but in reality they are of the devil. Just because someone owns a Bible and quotes scripture does not mean that they are Christians. Satan is the great deceiver. I have been in some Gospel denying churches where the pastor preached what appeared to be the truth, but upon closer examination it was far from the truth.

All deceptions start with the Bible. If the Bible, which is God's word can be subverted, then the Christian message can be subverted. There is nothing in the Old Testament or the New Testament about Calvinism, Catholicism, or any religion. Paul and the apostles did not teach a religion. Paul taught that "The Just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith does not mean living by laws, rules or a religion. The object of the Christians faith is Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is not a doctrine or a religion.

What do Calvinist talk about? They talk about Calvinism. What do Catholics talk about? They talk about the Catholic church. Religious people talk about religion and themselves. Jesus said of the Holy Spirit,

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come (he came into the world on the day of Pentecost) he will guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF: but whatsoever he shall hear that shall he speak and he will show you things to come. HE SHALL GLORIFY ME: for he shall receive of me and shall show it unto you" (the Gospel) John 16:13, 14.

Jesus Christ and his Gospel is the preoccupation of the Christian. Not Calvinism or Catholicism or any religion. "The just shall Live by faith in Christ and his Gospel" Jesus said,

"Where your treasure is, there will be you heart also" Matthew 6:21.

The truth of the matter is that Calvinist, Catholics and others have made their religion their Jesus. Now the question is, will God accept these false Jesus's into heaven in the judgment? Many will say to me in that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, didn't I? or Lord Lord, wasn't I? It appears that they thought salvation was all about them and their religion.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
I am convinced there are people within the Reformed realm who hear and believe the straight and pure Gospel of the grace of God and so are saved in spite of their TULIP programming, which they then process out of. I believe this because the Gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation and so is not bound by where it may be preached - even by accident! - or to whom. The odds are still against them believing it if the programming runs deep, however (ex., B57, Nang, and a few others). The saved among them may be deeply ensnared by what they've been taught (many of us admit to similar past ensnarements) but if they are saved, God WILL complete the work.

Catholics, having been forbidden to even believe a surety of forgiveness and justification is even possible to know, are a much tougher case. But again...the Word of God is not bound. There have been devout nuns and priests who heard and believed, in spite of Rome, and in time renounced it all (something neither Luther nor Calvin ever fully did, interestingly).
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
musterion said:
I am convinced there are people within the Reformed realm who hear and believe the straight and pure Gospel of the grace of God and so are saved in spite of their TULIP programming, which they then process out of. I believe this because the Gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation and so is not bound by where it may be preached - even by accident! - or to whom. The odds are still against them believing it if the programming runs deep, however (ex., B57, Nang, and a few others). The saved among them may be deeply ensnared by what they've been taught (many of us admit to similar past ensnarements) but if they are saved, God WILL complete the work.

Catholics, having been forbidden to even believe a surety of forgiveness and justification is even possible to know, are a much tougher case. But again...the Word of God is not bound. There have been devout nuns and priests who heard and believed, in spite of Rome, and in time renounced it all (something neither Luther nor Calvin ever fully did, interestingly).
Click to expand...


There is no evidence of the Holy Spirit in their teachings. If there is no evidence then they are NOT Christians. They are counterfeits. Believing that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is not of the Spirit. Teaching that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world is not of the Spirit. Catholics are not Christians because they believe that they must participate in their salvation. What it comes down to is what are you trusting in?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
There is no evidence of the Holy Spirit in their teachings. If there is no evidence then they are NOT Christians. They are counterfeits. Believing that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is not of the Spirit. Teaching that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world is not of the Spirit. Catholics are not Christians because they believe that they must participate in their salvation. What it comes down to is what are you trusting in?
Click to expand...

So holding to some form of error (assuming it IS error) is evidence enough for you to judge that someone CANNOT be saved, despite their error?

But like I said, the Gospel of grace - alone - is the power of God unto salvation. So you're going about this backwards. Set aside their whatever teachings. Ascertain what Gospel they've believed and you'll know beyond doubt and by their own words if they are Christ's or not.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
There is no evidence of the Holy Spirit in their teachings. If there is no evidence then they are NOT Christians. They are counterfeits. Believing that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is not of the Spirit. Teaching that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world is not of the Spirit. Catholics are not Christians because they believe that they must participate in their salvation. What it comes down to is what are you trusting in?
Click to expand...

Theres no evidence of the Spirit of God in your teachings when you deny the Blood of Christ saved them it was shed for !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
musterion said:
So holding to some form of error (assuming it IS error) is evidence enough for you to judge that someone CANNOT be saved, despite their error?

But like I said, the Gospel of grace - alone - is the power of God unto salvation. So you're going about this backwards. Set aside their whatever teachings. Ascertain what Gospel they've believed and you'll know beyond doubt and by their own words if they are Christ's or not.
Click to expand...

They can be saved if they will renounce their religion and trust in Christ alone. The only thing that is going to pass in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ. If we are not found to be "In Christ" we will perish. To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing. Just because someone professes that they are Christians does not mean they are one. You cannot and will not be saved if you reject Christ's Gospel. Calvinism and Catholicism is an out right rejection of the saving work of Christ.
 
J

jsanford108

New member
musterion said:
You know I agree with that.
Click to expand...

Why do you agree with that, particularly that Catholics reject the work of Christ?

Full disclosure, I am a convert to Catholicism. Also, your signature is hilarious. "The Jehovah's Witnesses posting as 'Meshak.'" That cracked me up.
 
J

jsanford108

New member
musterion said:
Council of Trent, Canon 30 on justification (among others)

contrast it with

Eph 2:8-9, Titus 3:5

One of them is wrong.
Click to expand...

So, either Eph 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 is wrong, or Rom 5:1 and Col 2:13 is wrong?

Note that Canon 30 is derrived from Romans 5, and Colossians. Also, Ephesians 2:8, as well as Titus 3:5 do not say "faith alone." They say "for by grace you have been saved by faith" and "not by works...." Neither of these are concrete support of "faith alone" doctrines. And both discredit "works alone" doctrines. Neither of the verses provided disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
jsanford108 said:
So, either Eph 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 is wrong, or Rom 5:1 and Col 2:13 is wrong?

Note that Canon 30 is derrived from Romans 5, and Colossians. Also, Ephesians 2:8, as well as Titus 3:5 do not say "faith alone." They say "for by grace you have been saved by faith" and "not by works...." Neither of these are concrete support of "faith alone" doctrines. And both discredit "works alone" doctrines. Neither of the verses provided disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...


Salvation is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. What good works can a sinner do to merit salvation?
Jesus Christ is the one that fulfilled God's Holy Law. Jesus Christ is the one that atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world. It was the doing and the dying of Jesus that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Not the Catholic church.
 
6days

6days

New member
Yes, some Calvinists and some Catholics have repented from sin and trust in Christ as their Savior. Likewise, so have some vegetarians, some Americans, some TOL members, some Navy Seals, etc are true followers of Jesus.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Salvation is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. What good works can a sinner do to merit salvation?
Jesus Christ is the one that fulfilled God's Holy Law. Jesus Christ is the one that atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world. It was the doing and the dying of Jesus that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Not the Catholic church.
Click to expand...

You teach that sinners Christ died for remain lost. So you lie when you say a Salvation is by Christ alone.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
You teach that sinners Christ died for remain lost. So you lie when you say a Salvation is by Christ alone.
Click to expand...

Of course they are lost. God's great free gift of salvation is not yours until it is received by faith. You know that is true because you chose to believe Calvinism and not Christ. A really, really bad choice.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Of course they are lost. God's great free gift of salvation is not yours until it is received by faith. You know that is true because you chose to believe Calvinism and not Christ. A really, really bad choice.
Click to expand...
You are saying that sinners Christ died for are still lost! That's saying that Christ death doesn't save.

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
I say every sinner Christ died for is saved, you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost.

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
Click to expand...

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto God, but you don't believe it. All sin has been purged, but you don't believe it. You are concerned about things that have already been dealt with because you are an unbeliever.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top