Hi Jerry,
Jerry: … but these verses are speaking about "service" and not salvation.
Is Paul not talking about salvation in the very first verses of Romans 9, though? And in the first verse of chapter 10, which continues in a similar vein, he even mentions salvation specifically, praying "that they may be saved."
Jerry: And by making this mistake they fall further into confusion by assuming that the Lord died only for those who were chosen from the beginning of time.
I agree that Jesus' death was for every person, without exception, I am only a four-point Calvinist, and do not hold to limited atonement.
Godrulz: There are also times where God's election/intentions are not fulfilled due to the rejection by the one called.
I think not, though!
Romans 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
Godrulz: God's sovereign choices of nations for ministry is the context of this passage.
What nation does Isaac represent, though, I wonder? And Pharaoh was not a nation, nor were all of his people hardened ("Let them go already! Egypt is ruined," said his officials), and some even went with Israel.
But really now! And after chiding about eisigesis...
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers...
How is this speaking of Paul's service? No, it clearly refers to his salvation.
Romans 9:7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children.
This is not talking about service! It's speaking of belonging, and really belonging to Abraham means salvation.
Romans 9:9 "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."
Not a servant!
Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
This must also mean salvation, how could compassion refer to a choice for service?
Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Pharaoh is serving God's purpose! Though he was hardened, and not chosen.
Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
All these vessels are for a purpose, they are serving, but again, some are not chosen for belonging:
Romans 9:25 As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people."
Not "I will call them 'my servants' etc."
Romans 9:23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory--
For glory! Not for service.
Romans 9:31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.
Service? No, they did not attain righteousness, which means ... salvation.
Blessings,
Lee