ARCHIVE: Hello. (funniest "hello" thread ever!)

[Lighthouse]

And niether do you, and I don't know if we can even call "god" a "he."

He has revealed His nature. And calls Himself, "He." Who am I to argue?

 

[Punisher1984]

He has revealed His nature. And calls Himself, "He." Who am I to argue?

According to a certain theology, yes. However, there are so many different theologies that it's impossible to tell which (if any) of them reflect the nature of "god."

 

[icilian fenner]

In case the "" didn't tip you off, I was being sarcastic. I was taking what you said about me, and reversing it to you, to show your hypocrisy, in accusing me, without supporting it. So all of your responses since then have only proven your hypocrisy more.

I have tried to support my assertions with the evidence that I see, giving you ample chance to discuss how I am wrong about you with me. I fail to see any hypocrisy?

I would kill people in the name of justice, if God called me to. But only as an executioner in a Godly government. I would never commit suicide in the vain delusion that I was somehow a martyr. Nor would I go about killing millions of innocent people, as suicide bombers do.

On what do you base this willingness to do one, and unwillingness to do the other?

Also, God does not define what is wrong, or right.

So it is not from him that you derive your absolute morals? Or did I phrase my original reply slightly wrong?

 

[icilian fenner]

The verse is not speaking about bringing run of the mill harm. Nor is it speaking about a teenager cursing their parents, in the way you are thinking.

Whatever the particulars of this case, interesting though it may be, and willing though I am to hear what you have to say about it, it was only an illustrative example without which the point still stands. I don't mind if this is discussed, but would rather it didn't detract from the main thrust of the debate.

 

[Lighthouse]

I have tried to support my assertions with the evidence that I see, giving you ample chance to discuss how I am wrong about you with me. I fail to see any hypocrisy?

It's hypocrisy, because it is present within yourself, and you haven't corrected that before attempting to point it out in others.

On what do you base this willingness to do one, and unwillingness to do the other?

One is just, the other is not. Was that really too complicated for you to understand?

So it is not from him that you derive your absolute morals? Or did I phrase my original reply slightly wrong?

It is from Him, in that He created me, and His word is written upon my heart. But no, I do not believe what I do, just because it is written down. I ask why, or how, or whatever question needs asked, to every situation. There are some versions of the Bible, two that I know of, that say something that really does not sit right with me in a certain verse. And while the other versions I have read don't obviously contradict it, I prayed for truth. And sought out the original Hebrew. I didn't just blindly accept it, because it was in the Bible.

 

[Lighthouse]

Whatever the particulars of this case, interesting though it may be, and willing though I am to hear what you have to say about it, it was only an illustrative example without which the point still stands. I don't mind if this is discussed, but would rather it didn't detract from the main thrust of the debate.

Your point falls apart, because the entire premise of your point is a fallacy. It doesn't stand anywhere.

 

[icilian fenner]

It's hypocrisy, because it is present within yourself, and you haven't corrected that before attempting to point it out in others.

How my theology/philosophy/attitude is little different from that of Muslim extremists?

One is just, the other is not. Was that really too complicated for you to understand?

And from where do you get your standard of justice? Is it dependent on what the Bible/your God says?

It is from Him, in that He created me, and His word is written upon my heart. But no, I do not believe what I do, just because it is written down. I ask why, or how, or whatever question needs asked, to every situation. There are some versions of the Bible, two that I know of, that say something that really does not sit right with me in a certain verse. And while the other versions I have read don't obviously contradict it, I prayed for truth. And sought out the original Hebrew. I didn't just blindly accept it, because it was in the Bible.

If God thought it just, and you were convinced through the biblical research that it was so, would you feel justified in doing whatever, whatever the earthly consequence?

 

[Lighthouse]

How my theology/philosophy/attitude is little different from that of Muslim extremists?

No. That was the sarcasm part. You're utterly convinced that you're right, and I am wrong. And you were pointing your finger at me for the exact same thing, saying I was like the Islamic Extremist.

And from where do you get your standard of justice? Is it dependent on what the Bible/your God says?

Not always. Some things are dependent upon Him, because I am a fallen man, and I do not fully understand justice. But other things are so obvious, that I see them without God having to tell me.

If God thought it just, and you were convinced through the biblical research that it was so, would you feel justified in doing whatever, whatever the earthly consequence?

I am never convinced through Biblical research. And God would only see it as just, if it was just.

 

[icilian fenner]

No. That was the sarcasm part. You're utterly convinced that you're right, and I am wrong. And you were pointing your finger at me for the exact same thing, saying I was like the Islamic Extremist.

Willing to discuss the point and abandon my position if I am shown to be wrong.

Not always. Some things are dependent upon Him, because I am a fallen man, and I do not fully understand justice. But other things are so obvious, that I see them without God having to tell me.

Were God to plainly state something, even if it was previously not obvious to you, would you become convinced that it was just, and adopt what you thought was his standard of judgement?

I am never convinced through Biblical research.

Through what are you convinced?

And God would only see it as just, if it was just.

An opinion you would share with the people I'm comparing you with, surely?

 

[icilian fenner]

P.S.Obviously, the sarcasm goes over my head. For the sake of clear debate, would you mind not employing it from here on?

 

[Lighthouse]

Willing to discuss the point and abandon my position if I am shown to be wrong.

Liar.

Were God to plainly state something, even if it was previously not obvious to you, would you become convinced that it was just, and adopt what you thought was his standard of judgement?

I've done it before. But I also sought Him, and the reasoning behind it.

Through what are you convinced?

Seeking God, and His thoughts and reasons.

An opinion you would share with the people I'm comparing you with, surely?

No.

 

[Lighthouse]

P.S.Obviously, the sarcasm goes over my head. For the sake of clear debate, would you mind not employing it from here on?

If I declined to employ that which went over your head, we wouldn't be having any more discussions.

 

[icilian fenner]

Liar.

:think: no, I'm really not. Sorry to disappoint.

I've done it before. But I also sought Him, and the reasoning behind it.

Would you accept that God wishes the death of those who have wronged him through sin and unbelief, if your prayers and holy text left you feeling that way?

Seeking God, and His thoughts and reasons.

Islamic terrorists feel they have all these things?

No.

Islamic terrorists do not think that Allah only things something is just because something is just?

 

[icilian fenner]

If I declined to employ that which went over your head, we wouldn't be having any more discussions.

Can see the patience starting to ebb away. Pity, really is.

 

[Lighthouse]

:think: no, I'm really not. Sorry to disappoint.

Even so, you accused me of such without any basis. If you go back and read some of my earlier posts, you will see that I have done so.

Would you accept that God wishes the death of those who have wronged him through sin and unbelief, if your prayers and holy text left you feeling that way?

It says He does not wish their death, but that they shall receive their death if they do not accept His salvation.

Islamic terrorists feel they have all these things?

Islamics have no idea who God is.

Islamic terrorists do not think that Allah only things something is just because something is just?

No. They think it is just because "Allah*" says it is.















*Mohammed is really the one who said it.

 

[Lighthouse]

Can see the patience starting to ebb away. Pity, really is.

My patience with you? Yes, it is waning.

 

[icilian fenner]

Even so, you accused me of such without any basis. If you go back and read some of my earlier posts, you will see that I have done so.

I'm going to.

It says He does not wish their death, but that they shall receive their death if they do not accept His salvation.

Whatever it does say is not pertinent to my point. It's the basis on which decisions are made and justified that I'm talking about.

Islamics have no idea who God is.

Same attitude they have to you, and made on the same basis of faith.

No. They think it is just because "Allah*" says it is.

So you think there's an independent set of values of God, that God adheres to?

*Mohammed is really the one who said it.

Replace mohammed with any other Biblical prophets for yourself?

 

[icilian fenner]

My patience with you? Yes, it is waning.

Hopefully I shall be convinced of your point soon. Hang in there, I know I'm not quite offering clear debate goodness, and for that sub-parness, I'm apologising.

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm going to.


Whatever it does say is not pertinent to my point. It's the basis on which decisions are made and justified that I'm talking about.

If you read Deuteronomy 22:28 in the NIV or The Message it says something I find abhorrent. And the other versions don't clear up the issue on face value. So I had to go the original Hebrew, and to God in prayer, to find the truth. I could not rely solely on the Bible for this.

Same attitude they have to you, and made on the same basis of faith.

They have indoctrination, not faith.

So you think there's an independent set of values of God, that God adheres to?

Yes.

Replace mohammed with any other Biblical prophets for yourself?

Mohammed is the only writer of the Koran.

 

[Merchant]

Islamics have no idea who God is.

Same attitude they have to you, and made on the same basis of faith.

Same attitude they have to you, and made on the same basis of faith.

They have indoctrination, not faith.

That has to be one of the funniest things I've seen in a while lighthouse except for that fact that the way you think is repulsive. Just because they are islamic they can't have faith or don't know who 'god' is.