Yeah, that tends to be a problem for Catholics.
anticatholics: please list the "false doctrines of Catholicism"
- Thread starter republicanchick
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Cruciform
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God says that that they're alive in heaven, but CM says they're not alive. Very telling.
Try again.
Also, Scripture is not the totality of Divine Revelation (God's word), as you wrongly assume it to be [source].
Straw Man Fallacy. Once again, you resort to straightforward lying (Prov. 19:5).
Again, learn how to read. I referred not to your selected prooftext, but specifically to the utterly fabricated and wholly imaginary hypothetical you put forth in Post #293 above. My statement, therefore, stands exactly as posted.
You admit, then, that Protestant actions are just as likely to be misconstrued by your hypothetical "ignorant outsider" as are Catholic actions. So much, then, for your entire line of "reasoning" to this point.
Straw Man Fallacy. No implication whatsoever.
Feel free, then, to actually disprove the last section of Post #316. No? That's what I thought. My statement therefore stands exactly as posted.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Drake Shelton
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1. The doctrine of the Trinity. If you believe there are three divine persons all completely equal who can all receive equal worship and adoration, you believe in three gods. No way out of it. Deut. 6:4. 1 Cor. 8:6.
2. The doctrine that the law of Moses no longer is to be used as the standard for right and clean living, Mat. 5:17-19, but rather we are to govern society and our lives according to the ancient feudal system that used to persecute believers, and the insane unnatural mysticism and asceticism of the monks.
3. The doctrine of the soul, which is a mis-understanding of the breath of life.
That is the heart of it. But there is a ton more.
Cruciform
New member
Thus, perfectly proving republicanchick's initial point.
That is not what I said at all. And toy accuser me of not being able to read.
thank you due proving my point.
Us, it is.
I neither created a straw man note lied. If you disagree, by all means, spell it out for us.
Then got did so quite poorly. My original point remains, catholics now before statues, a practice expressly forbidden by God.
Given that protestants never bow before a statue, no, I admit no such thing.
You're a fool of you belive that.
Already have. See all my posts to date.
Cruciform
New member
Past saints, therefore, are indeed alive. Your admission is noted.
Already directly refuted in the very post to which you're responding.
I in no way "conceded" any point whatsoever to you, as you falsely claim in Post #319 above. Thus, your claim engages in a Straw Man Fallacy, and is indeed a straightforward lie.
Already answered---and corrected---in Post #316 above.
Seriously, are you brain damaged? My observation was that "Protestant actions are just as likely to be misconstrued by your hypothetical 'ignorant outsider' as are Catholic actions." Your comment to which I was replying indicates precisely that reality.
Here you're merely once again placing your vast ignorance of Catholic teaching on public display. The Catholic Church certainly does not teach that excommunication is a declaration that someone is "going to hell," as you falsely claim. If you disagree, go ahead and cite the paragraph in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that supposedly teaches any such idea.
Now go ahead and cite the number of the post in which you supposedly "disprove" the last section of my Post #316.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
That's not what I said either. You may have to actually go go back and read what I really said.
It was not refuted, you simply stated that as a catholic, God's word is not enough so you willing submit to the wisdom of men. Do you remember what scripture says about the wisdom of men?
Of course you did, as soon as you say see post humpy splat you admit that you have no more valid responses thus you concede the argument.
You only need to concede once.
Sonce Protestants don't bow before a statue for any reason, your observation is flat out wrong. There is nothing in a Protestant church that anew and ignorant person would see as worshiping a statue.
What happened to Martin Luther when he died according to your traditions?
Right here: Catholics bow before statues which is specifically prohibited by God Himself. Do you deny that Catholics bow before statues?
Thank goodness then for you pope and his willingness to tell us how we must think about Jesus.
Stuart
FalseProphet touched on it, RC.
Jesus' divine origin was challenged in John 8:13 KJV after Jesus said He was "the light of the world" (John 8:12 KJV). Jesus said He and His Father were two witnesses to His divine origin (John 8:18 KJV). Well, witnesses testify. Cutting to the chase, Jesus' testimony is found in John 8:38 KJV... what succinctly and explicitly did Jesus see with His Father that corroborates Jesus' divine origin? God's testimony to Jesus' divine origin is found in John 8:40 KJV, something Jesus heard from God that even Abraham didn't hear. What did Jesus explicitly and succinctly hear from God that corroborates Jesus' divine origin?
Those two testimonies (John 8:38 KJV, and John 8:40 KJV) constitute what Jesus told those "who believed on him" (John 8:30 KJV) that "converted" (Matthew 13:15 KJV) them into Jesus' "disciples indeed" (John 8:31 KJV). Jesus told His believers "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32 KJV).
So, since the Catholic Church proclaims to be the one true church, and you imply "I know everything I need to know about Jesus," then please render up the explicit and succinct details of those two divine testimonies. Well, don't feel too elated if you cannot. Just accept the simple deduction that possibly you don't know Jesus as well as you think, Catholic, or otherwise.
kayaker
Drake Shelton
New member
For your argument from God being the God if the living, Luke explains that:
He clearly denotes their living to refer to the Resurrection, not the afterlife of the "soul" immediately after death. Yeshua is referring to the Nephesh, the perpetual life in the blood which is probably DNA.
This is Luke's account of
The Hebrew word here would be Nephesh, the perpetual life. So, yes God is the God of the living, meaning, those who are dead but still retain the Nephesh awaiting the Resurrection.
Cruciform
New member
Now cite the number of the post in which I supposedly stated that "God's word is not enough." Proof, please.
Rather, that I NEED no more responses. No "concession" whatsoever.
My observation isn't restricted to statues (thus negating your comment here entirely), but extends to anything whatsoever that Protestants might do that could possibly be misconstrued in any way by your hypothetical "ignorant outsider." My statement therefore stands exactly as posted.
Irrelevant, since there are any number of other Protestant actions that could just as easily be misconstrued by your hypothetical "ignorant outsider." My statement therefore stands.
I have absolutely no idea. Only God knows whether or not he was in a state of grace at the moment of his death. God alone may judge the heart.
Already directly refuted in Post #316 above. So much for the entirely non-authoritative interpretations of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. :yawn:
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
republicanchick
New member
Catholics spend time in the ACTUAL, physical Presence of Christ
it can be safely assumed that one is closer to a loved one while spending t ime with that one.. than merely reading about him... or hearing some anti-Catholic pastor talk about him...
+++
Perhaps, RC. Are you suggesting then you've physically and personally touched His nail scarred hands and feet, then? Have you literally and physically touched the hem of His garment? Are you suggesting Jesus is not sitting at the right hand of the throne of God? I suspect not, RC. I'm sad to hear that reading about Jesus in His Word doesn't glorify Him enough for you. Even Peter said we are "born again... by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever" (1Peter 1:23 KJV).
Yet, the fact remains Catholics (and I'm relentless on all traditional 'churches') don't have an explicit and succinct clue to the two divine testimonies (John 8:38 KJV, John 8:40 KJV) to Jesus' divinity (John 8:12 KJV, John 8:13 KJV, John 8:18 KJV) that "converted" (Matthew 13:15 KJV) Jesus' 'believers' (John 8:30 KJV) into Jesus' "disciples indeed" (John 8:31 KJV). Such absence is prima facie evidence there are no "disciples indeed" (John 8:31 KJV) among Catholics that proclaims your church to be Jesus' one historic church. Consequently, I can only conclude you folks haven't been set free (John 8:32 KJV) desiring a Pope and magesterium in lieu of John 14:26 KJV.
I find that most peculiar, RC. If anyone knew the explicit and succinct details of those two divine testimonies (John 8:38 KJV, John 8:40 KJV), it's reasonable to assume you guys would. Well, I'm not holding my breath...
kayaker
There are multiple posts where you say this. Each and every time you say that scripture is not the only Devinely inspired word of God you say Gods word is not enough.
If that were indeed true, people wouldn't continue to question you. Since they continue to ask questions and you have no more to offer, it is a concession by you.
The problem you face is that scripture never once says that we can't bow our heads in prayer with each other. Scripture never says we cannot hold hands and pray. These are red herrings created by you to support a position, bow before a statue, that is specifically prohibited by God. New members will see things in our church, but they will not see that which God has prohibited.
No, there are not. See immediately above.
Thus the implication is possible. doesnt matter what they teach when they actively teach that to die separated from the RCC is to die separated from Christ.
We have already accepted that you have nothing left to offer on this point.
Yet, you go against His teachings.
First of all, Jesus says His followers are not of the world.
You know how RCC and the most churches are political?
Politics are of the world. You don't know what Jesus teaches.
Cruciform
New member
Post number, please.
No more than every time you say that Tradition is not---along with Scripture---the authoritative word of God, you say that part of God's word is to be rejected.
Nonsense. The fact that they happen not to prefer the truth in no way means that the truth is insufficient or incomplete. Try again.
Nevertheless, your hypothetical "ignorant outsider" could just as easily misconstrue those actions as he could prayer before a sacred object. My point stands.
Already contextually answered in Post #316 above.
All that matters for this discussion is that they could possibly MISINTERPRET those actions, which they certainly could. According to your "logic," then, you ought to stop doing ALL of those things right away.
Yes there are. See immediately above.
Again, this is a Straw Man Fallacy, since the Church teaches no such thing. (So much for your supposed "Catholic education.")
We have already observed that nothing more is required in answer to your entirely imaginary hypothetical.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
Where, exactly...?
They are, however, IN the world.
Is scripture the only divinely inspired Revelation of God?
Does this mean that you have finally found the traditions Paul was referring to in his letter!? That is awesome! Please share that list with us so we can learn. Whats that? No such list has been found? SO you still have no idea what traditions that Paul was referring to in his letter. Remember, Paul was referring to established traditions and there is nothing anywhere in scripture about adding new traditions and considering them fully equivalent to scripture.
When you cannot answers peoples questions then they see no truth in you. You tow the party line but that is all. You offer nothing to help people understand. No matter how many times you post the same link, if you cannot not discuss your links in reasonable and forthright manor, it is nothing but propaganda.
Misconstrue them for what? What do Protestants do in their churches that God says don't do? Name it and post the scripture, not a link to Catholic traditions, that says don't do it.
Obviously not as scripture still days not to bow before a statue and there is no way you rationalize or justify ignoring what God the Father said directly to Moses. Well, I suppose you can, but I don't want to be in your shoes later.
But you remain unable to tell us what they misrepresent. All that matters for this conversation is that Catholic routinely bow before a statue in flagrant disobedience of God's command. It does not matter what is in your heart as you kneel before the statue of Mary with clasped hands and bowed head repeating the Hail Mary, all that matters in the act.
You have yet to name something that Protestants do in their churches that God says not to do. We'll wait.
Really? So now your church is not the Body of Christ? Hmmm Catholic teachings seem to have changed since my time in Catechism class.
Well, there is something more required. You need to explain why your church has the authority to override and change and void God's commands.
Cruciform
New member
According to Scripture itself, no.
You've already been answered on this point repeatedly on past threads. The bottom line: Paul taught the binding authority of Tradition, an apostolic teaching that you deny.
Again, the fact that they happen not to prefer the truth in no way means that the truth is insufficient or incomplete. Try again.
It doesn't matter whether the actions are sanctioned by God or not. The issue is whether your hypothetical "ignorant outsider" could possibly misconstrue the actions.
Already answered---and contextually corrected---in Post #316 above.
The issue isn't what "ignorant outsiders" misrepresent, but the mere fact that they could possibly misconstrue anything whatsoever. If they possibly could, according to your "logic," you must stop engaging in those actions immediately. When, then, do you plan on doing so?
See above.
Again, go ahead and cite the paragraph from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which states that those who are excommunicated "go to hell." We'll wait.
No more is required than to state the truth. The fact that they happen not to prefer the truth in no way means that the truth is insufficient or incomplete. Try again.
Straw Man Fallacy. Rather, the Church possesses the very authority of Jesus Christ himself (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15), the authority to override and void the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect regarding the authentic meaning of Divine Revelation (including Scripture).
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+