glorydaz
Well-known member
What law was Abel under that he would be guilty of sin?
Anti- Calvinists Ignore the Fall !
- Thread starter BoyStan
- Start date
What law was Abel under that he would be guilty of sin?
God's Truth
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just in case anyone thought he was perfect
God's Truth
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God accepted him as righteous, but that doesn't mean he was perfect.
It does show that not all are all evil, but there are good people too.
Jesus' blood makes people perfect, when we are saved through it.
Even those who died in the flesh but lived in the spirit weren't made perfect until Jesus' shed blood on the cross.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned... It clearly says that sin and death entered with Adam then death spread to every man born in Adam because all were already sinners when they were conceived! I agree we inherited his death so Christ need only once for all of us - it does not say that we inherited Adam's sin which is a blasphemous theological construct to fill in an ignorance.
You may wish it said "because all sinned...by inheriting Adam's sin" but it does not say that and the inference that it does is driven by a false theology that GOD who is love and righteous justice can create evil people.
God says "yes" to the fertilization of an egg, resulting in conception of a human life. Because of Adam's sin, that zygote is already programmed with a corruption, a virus if you will, that is by nature evil in that the human will be a rebel against God.
God is holy, but sin has affected all of His creation.
Many theological permutations are possible from Rom5:12-19 and I will leave the fine tuning to the PHD's.
The effects of Adam's sinning are obvious and easy enough to grasp(Eph2:1-3).
glorydaz
Well-known member
You'll never convince a Calvinist of that. To them, man is so depraved he cannot even seek God, much less hear or respond to the Gospel. In fact, I've even heard them go so far as to say the unsaved HATE God, though they know Him not. Take a verse and twist it...quite the game. :nono:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Sin entered the world. Live in the world long enough without God, and you will eventually walk according to the course of the world.
WOW! What scriptures do they twist to say such things about mankind?
Very interesting! Some ideas spring to mind from what you say:
- Some people live in the world with God until a certain age
- Some people die at an age before they walk according to the course of the world
- Is the age when people walk according to the course of the world different for different people or is it a standard age such as 7 or 13 or 65?
- How can anyone not walk according to the course of the world?
It would be helpful if you could give scriptures with your answers?
glorydaz
Well-known member
God created us with a conscience to know right and wrong. Until a child reaches the age where he knowingly chooses the wrong over right, he is innocent.
Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Once they choose wrongly, they have opened themselves up to worldly influences, to the lusts of the flesh and the pride of life.
Psalm 139:13-16KJV Isaiah 7:16KJV
Man's only hope is to be reconciled to God....from whence cometh our help.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Here is one of my favorites. They ignore the beauty and poetry a verse is written in (hyperbole), and claim it is literal..when it suits their needs concerning Total Depravity.
Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
ttruscott
Well-known member
If he was not a sinner, he was not under the law of death...Jeremiah 31:30 Instead, each will die for his own iniquity. with Ezek 18:4, and so would not have died.
Death proves sin. No holy elect angels will ever die.
ttruscott
Well-known member
AMEN! then HE did not create sinners by creating people as sinners, or with a sinful nature or any other euphemism for creating evil people in Adam's sin by inheritance or any other method by making them human.
Guilt for sin can only accrue to those with the guilty intent (mens rea) to sin resulted in their choice to sin in HIS sight...not by being born human.
Death proves sin and people die in the womb. They cannot have been created by a conception in the womb as evil so they can die from their sin, so when we read that Jesus sowed (NOT created as the devil sows also) the people of the kingdom into the world as sinners, we can rest assured that the inference that this means we came from somewhere else where we had sinned is not just possible but plausible. The verses are: Matt 13:36-39, the parable of the good seed not to be mixed up with the parable of the sower just before it...
ttruscott
Well-known member
HE was NOT FORCED to make us HUMAN IN ADAM!!! By forcing us to take on Adam's corrupt programming, HE forced us to be created as corrupt and evil!
God is holy. God does not create evil people. !!!!
...especially since some of those people are to be HIS Bride! What possible reason could there be for HIM to make HIS Bride degraded and corrupt with a righteousness as filthy rags just to cure her and then marry her?? Did HE have a need to abase us before we were fit to marry HIM?
Absurd isn't it. There isn't even a good bad reason for HIM to do this!
ttruscott
Well-known member
Trust not to the PH Ds but seek GOD....if doctrine contradicts GOD is holy and will not create evil people then it is wrongly decided.
Eph 2:1-3 sums up our sinful nature alright but it does NOT say we were made/created that way when it is obvious there can be no guilt unless the person chose to be sinful by their own free will.
Adam's sin is inherited. In Matthew 25 it is referred to as "the curse." When humans are conceived, that corruption is passed on from Adam on down to the present.
God could have created a new Adam and started all over again. God didn't. He, instead, chooses to reconcile some of Adams offspring to himself. This is the message from Genesis to Revelation.
It is interesting that you hate God for having said "yes" to your own existence while knowing you were born with corruption. Do you wish that you had never been formed. Do you imagine you should have had your corruption corrected before being conceived? Could you be more ungrateful?
Share the verse that says humans are created sinless and chose sin by their own free will. In fact, share where you find free will in the Bible.