ECT Another lock on UESIC

musterion

musterion

Well-known member
UESIC Meaning Unconditional Eternal Safety in Christ, elsewhere called OSAS or ES.

Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it unto the day of Jesus Christ
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Phil 1:6

For Paul's confidence to be accepted and shared as trustworthy, two things must be seen.

First, there is a work of growing each believer into the image of the Son. That work is God's work, not the believer's.

Second, that work can be retarded and delayed by an ignorant or immature believer but because it remains God's work, it cannot be stopped. That means it will be completed to His specifications per the red in my signature line.

This proves those who are placed in Christ can never be removed from Him, that is, "lose their salvation." It also proves that all those who will still insist that it can be received and lost (just wait, they'll be along shortly) simply do not believe what Paul said. Even if they insist that they do, when they deny the above facts they prove that they are speaking for Satan. But they're all able to read, so ignorance is not their excuse. They have no excuse.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
revpete said:
Are you saying that all that believe salvation can be lost are not saved?
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Fair question. I have changed what I used to think on that. I have found over time that very, very few people who deny UESIC are believers of the saving Gospel who somehow remain honestly ignorant of what Paul said...I used to assume that they were, but I don't assume that any longer.

My view changed when I realized that, with a little probing and honesty on their part (which is often not a sure bet), one finds almost without exception that such people have believed a false gospel that involves works to be or to stay saved, which automatically precludes all possibility of eternal security in Christ. This despite the fact that, at least here on TOL, they DO know full well what Paul said. Since they can read Paul, have read Paul, and do understand what Paul taught, they steadfastly refuse to accept it, going to any idiotic lengths necessary to make it look like Paul did not say what he said. Even if they have to create Mexican standoffs by de-contexting Paul's own writings and pitting them against one another (which makes God the author of confusion, if not a liar), they're apparently quite happy to do it. The integrity and trustworthiness of the Bible means nothing to them beyond a source of prooftexts to support whatever their slavedrivers have told them to believe or else.

Now all that is bad enough and can be seen daily on TOL. The real giveaway (to me) is how they cannot stand the idea of anyone else believing in UESIC much less possessing UESIC! It appears intolerable to them because they take it VERY personally (some of them have been so insulted by the idea that they've gotten scary irrational about it). To me, that indicates that they are of Gospel-blind ministers of Satan.
 
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nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
musterion said:
UESIC Meaning Unconditional Eternal Safety in Christ, elsewhere called OSAS or ES.

Phil 1:6

For Paul's confidence to be accepted and shared as trustworthy, two things must be seen.

First, there is a work of growing each believer into the image of the Son. That work is God's work, not the believer's.

Second, that work can be retarded and delayed by an ignorant or immature believer but because it remains God's work, it cannot be stopped. That means it will be completed to His specifications per the red in my signature line.

This proves those who are placed in Christ can never be removed from Him, that is, "lose their salvation." It also proves that all those who will still insist that it can be received and lost (just wait, they'll be along shortly) simply do not believe what Paul said. Even if they insist that they do, when they deny the above facts they prove that they are speaking for Satan. But they're all able to read, so ignorance is not their excuse. They have no excuse.
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The real question becomes when one is actually "saved"...as in born again. Even Paul didn't have the ability to know who was saved and who wasn't...

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
Galatians 4:19-20
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
nikolai_42 said:
The real question becomes when one is actually "saved"...
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One is placed into Christ when one believes the saving Gospel. That's as safe as safe can be, and so amounts to "saved," a done deal, an accomplished fact by God's decree.

So if someone professes understanding of and belief of the saving Gospel (and there is only one), then believers are not at liberty to doubt, even though many may lie about what they've believed. Rather, believers must assume or even hope, as Paul did, that these too are in Christ, for He knows who are His even when we can't. The believer can rest in that. I know I do.

On the other hand, it's still true that what comes out of the mouth reveals the heart. If they say they reject the saving Gospel (as many on TOL do boldly say) in favor of any other, then they are lost, lest and until they come to believe the true Gospel at some point.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Yes, simply hearing and believing; trusting in Christ's finished work on the Cross and the gospel of our salvation seats us in heavenly places with Him. - Ephesians 2:4-6 KJV - Ephesians 2:7-8 KJV -


1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


Romans 10:17 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 KJV -



Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
The below verses argue against OSAS.

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die" (Eze. 18:24).

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God" (Heb. 3:12).

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Tim. 41).
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Banned
Bradley D said:
The below verses argue against OSAS.

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die" (Eze. 18:24).

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God" (Heb. 3:12).

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Tim. 41).
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So that's written to you ?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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patrick jane said:
Yes, simply hearing and believing; trusting in Christ's finished work on the Cross and the gospel of our salvation seats us in heavenly places with Him. - Ephesians 2:4-6 KJV - Ephesians 2:7-8 KJV -


1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


Romans 10:17 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 KJV -



Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -
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Amen, that's written to us. We cannot lose our salvation once we hear, believe and trust Christ and the Cross. God will not be called a liar.
 
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