God's Truth
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That is not my quote.
As for the scriptures I gave about the two lambs, why are you not considering them? The people had to make offerings, but the priests had to also, for the themselves, and for the people.
Animal Sacrifices Found in the Old Testament ?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
That is not my quote.
As for the scriptures I gave about the two lambs, why are you not considering them? The people had to make offerings, but the priests had to also, for the themselves, and for the people.
Again, in the teaching of the Master every man is likened to a house:
Exodus 12:7 KJV
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
This goes all the way back to the application of blood as spoken to you in the previous thread and again on the second page of this thread, (which was why I posted it again herein).
Your body-temple is the house, O man, and the Pesakh is the Word of the Father:
Exodus 12:13 KJV
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Exodus 12:21-23 KJV
21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, [supernal meaning - hands-deeds] that they may be as frontlets between your eyes [supernal meaning - eyes-focus-thoughts].
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.
Without supernal Torah, as understood through the lenses of the full Testimony of the Messiah found in the Gospel accounts, you will never see the days of the heavens upon the earth.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Sorry!
The subject was in regard to a bloodless atonement. Why did you even quote the verses which you did?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you believe that the things which happened on the night when the blood-stained houses were passed over never actually happened?
God's Truth
New member
Hebrews 5:3 This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 7:27
Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer daily sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people; He sacrificed for sin once for all when He offered up Himself.
I have already answered that in this thread with the Testimony of the Messiah.
You do not believe his words just as the rest of the naysayers and accusers here.
There are different theories as to whether the Torah actually records historical events or not, or whether it was only "discovered" in the days of Josiah, or perhaps written in the days of Josiah, or maybe even lost in the burning of the first Temple and written by Ezra in Babylon during the dispersion under Nebuchadnezzar. My point is that by the Testimony of Messiah, (Matthew 11:13), it does not matter either way because either way it does not change anything in my doctrine. If someone says they can prove none of it happened, so what, Moses prophesied. If someone says they can prove it all happened, so much the better, but when Moses wrote the Torah he prophesied. And this is true of many historical events which are recorded in the scripture, even more so especially among the prophets, and why in many places the scripture record does not necessarily agree with what we know from other historical records concerning the same events in antiquity; and that is because in the scripture those accounts are not intended to be understood as purely historical accounts, but were rather written as holy, spiritual, and supernal teachings, (which is the meaning of Torah), using historical events as a backdrop for the supernal teachings. In other words the historicity or historical accuracy of any particular event mentioned in the holy writings is not the point to begin with but rather it is the teaching derived from what is written about those accounts that really counts. Do I believe the children of Israel came up out of Egypt? Of course, but how Moses writes about it in the Torah is quite a different proposal; for the Master says, "All the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan, (Matthew 11:13), and this is actually merciful and gracious to those rulers of the people who had misinterpreted the Torah until that time; for no one including ourselves could have understood it either, not before the advent of Messiah and his Testimony. That is probably also what the underlined portion in the already quoted following passage likely means:
Psalm 50:7-15 KJV
7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God.
8 I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been [which are] continually before me.
9 I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds.
10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.
12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
13 Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?
14 Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
"I will not reprove you for your sacrifices or your burnt offerings continually before Me."
By the overall context the above is just about equivalent to saying, paraphrased:
"I am not going to reprove you for misunderstanding: but that was not what I intended!"
This makes sense to you, I gather.
There is something about us (Jews) that most Christians don't quite get. We aren't heavily involved in "theology". Ours is a doing religion, not a philosophical religion. Yes, I know that Jews have dealt with theology, but what concerns us is mostly what the correct thing to do is, not how sins and sacrifices work, or what god is or isn't.
It is possible that somebody reading this thread will know about Maimonides. He dealt with philosophical issues, and some parts of theology. He was revolutionary in this regard, as we managed without that type of writing for a couple thousand years. To this day, if you visit a Jewish Yeshivah ("seminary", if you like), you will find that they are mostly studying Jewish law, not theology. Even if the word "theological" appears in their name in English.
It is possible that somebody reading this thread will know about Maimonides. He dealt with philosophical issues, and some parts of theology. He was revolutionary in this regard, as we managed without that type of writing for a couple thousand years. To this day, if you visit a Jewish Yeshivah ("seminary", if you like), you will find that they are mostly studying Jewish law, not theology. Even if the word "theological" appears in their name in English.
beameup
New member
The union of God with man?
It tells us that God loves us above all his creation...
so much so that He wants to form a permanent "bond" with mankind.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting אָב ʼâb, The Prince of Peace. - Isaiah 9:6
beameup
New member
The religious Hebrew is but a shell of its former self. It has lost so much depth and meaning from the original symbols and their meaning, and has been reduced to just another "alphabet" based language among the all the Gentile languages (except perhaps Chinese). So, it is an exercise in futility for the Orthodox Yeshivah. Someday Israel will be reunited with the "pure language" of its former glory.
Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the EARTH shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
For then will I return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent. - Zephaniah 3:8-9
Purification time is not too far away.
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Another perfect example of the utter fallacy of the literal physical interpretation: you probably actually believe that the whole earth, the literal physical globe, is going to be devoured by fire as billions of people are incinerated, (probably a third of mankind knowing your likely physical literal interpretation of Rev 9:15). While at the same time your ignorance of supernal things causes you to deny even the remotest possibility such things could have been accomplished at Golgotha; and if so then you are unknowingly denying the work of Messiah at Golgotha, (likewise the "feet" of the Most High already "stood" over the holy mount, (Zec 14:3,4, Luk 9:34,35, 2Pet 1:16,17-21), because "the clouds are the dust of His feet" in prophetic metaphor, (Nah 1:3)).
If purification is by literal fiery flames then you yourself are not purified.
beameup
New member
You obviously are ignorant of the effects of a Holy God encountering a sin-filled Christ-rejecting earth during the "Day of the LORD".
I suggest you educate yourself on the subject of Holy Fire in the Old Testament. :burnlib:
The "Day of the LORD" is one year and it is accomplished in the ministry of the Master following upon his immersion under Yohanan, (for "your lamb shall be the son of a year" and his ministry did not begin until about the age of thirty, (Luke 3:23)).
Luke 4:17-21
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah; and when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written:
18 The Spirit of the LORD is upon me, because He has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the LORD. [Isaiah 61:1-2a]
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he commenced, saying unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Not my problem you do not believe what is written in the above statement; and likewise all of the Noachic flood dates, including the midst of Pesach Sheni, are fulfilled in the ministry of the Anointed one, (in the Gospel of John), and again, not my problem you neither understand such things nor would you even believe them if they were actually shown to you from the passages. You do indeed deny the work of Messiah by way of your carnal minded physical paradigm-mindset; and what you imagine is supposed to happen in the future will only happen if enough of your false heretical preachers happen to influence world politics, (not because the scripture says it is supposed to happen).
beameup
New member
Then perhaps Jesus was "confused" and "misleading" when he uttered the following?
"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." - Matthew 24:20-22
I believe that it is you who qualifies as "false heretical preacher".
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is easy to explain and Stephen said it best:
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye" (Acts 7:51).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Nothing that is said in the Bible can possibly change your mind about anything because your final authority is what some men say about the Scriptures and not what the Scriptures actually say.
You did not read far enough in the Olivet Discourse from the Matthew account; but as I already said about the previous things, even if it be shown to you from the scripture you will not believe it: you will no doubt try to explain your way around it so as to reject the Testimony of the Master in favor of your carnal flesh-minded paradigm-mindset. In the very beginning of the discourse they ask him, saying, "When shall these things be?", (Mt 24:3), and he answers them precisely "when" in the closing punch-line statement of the entire passage, which you have failed to recognize:
Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of your parousia, and of the consummation of the age?
And after all of the discourse he closes with this statement in answer to the question:
Matthew 26:1-2
1 And it came to pass, when Yeshua had finished all these sayings, he said to his disciples:
2 You know that after two days comes the Passover; and the Son of Man is delivered up to be crucified.
So first he gives them all the signs in a lengthy discourse, and they are supernal in meaning and apply to each of us also, each in his or her own appointed times; but then in the closing statement, concerning himself, he gives them the "when", (two days, that is, at the Passover).
I gave you the authority from which I speak: Matthew 11:13.
You rejected that authority.