ECT Am I Calvinist or not?

[themystery]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning. They argue over whether or not I am a calvinist: I believe that when God creates a person, he knows if He makes them with a certain personality and puts them in a certain circumstance (believing parents vs. non-believing/ America vs. Iran) that they will or will not believe. He could make them otherwise. I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.
What makes me uncertain is that there is election and it is predetermined, but a denial of total depravity, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. Thanks for any help in understanding this.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning. They argue over whether or not I am a calvinist: I believe that when God creates a person, he knows if He makes them with a certain personality and puts them in a certain circumstance (believing parents vs. non-believing/ America vs. Iran) that they will or will not believe. He could make them otherwise. I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.
What makes me uncertain is that there is election and it is predetermined, but a denial of total depravity, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. Thanks for any help in understanding this.

The bolded makes you not a calvanist. If you believe in free will, you arent one.

 

[musterion]

I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.

That is a contradiction

 

[Desert Reign]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning. They argue over whether or not I am a calvinist: I believe that when God creates a person, he knows if He makes them with a certain personality and puts them in a certain circumstance (believing parents vs. non-believing/ America vs. Iran) that they will or will not believe. He could make them otherwise. I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.
What makes me uncertain is that there is election and it is predetermined, but a denial of total depravity, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. Thanks for any help in understanding this.

It seems to me that you lack self-confidence. I may be wrong but that's what I think from your post. Everyone is better than you and even the positive aspects of your character are just what God set you up with. Now you can go on like that till you die if you wish. And there's a fair chance that people will take advantage of you. And Calvinists will latch onto you and tell you that you are a depraved nobody lost in sin and good for absolutely nothing. And you will of course get really perplexed and they will tell you 'don't worry if it all seems to hard to understand. We don't understand it either because we are all fallen nobodies anyway and God is far too difficult a concept to grasp for us mere mortals.' And the last thing they will ever do is give you an answer that makes any real sense.

So it seems to me that the answer you are looking for is not theological but psychological or spiritual. Instead, you can put your hands in the hand of the one who stilled the waters, hold your head up high and tell the rest of them to go jump in the lake. Because when you live with Jesus, you don't need theology because you have Jesus. And when they tell you you are wrong or when they ask you if you believe in the trinity or in original sin or OSAS or Arminianism or free grace or a pre-trib rapture, you can just give them a wink and a grin and say, 'Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about; I've got stuff to do with Jesus and I'm busy.' If you can do this, I am sure you will actually become more knowledgeable than any of these people, because you will have true knowledge that comes from being with Jesus. That's what they said about the apostles: they thought they were just ignorant Galileans but after being with Jesus they were full of authority.

It's up to you. You can join the society of those who not only don't understand but revel in their lack of understanding; where most people stay indoors watching out for spies or threats to their existence and spend large parts of their time trying to unravel knotted balls of string or you can go with God. The sun always shines and you don't have to stay indoors.

 

[musterion]

Because when you live with Jesus, you don't need theology because you have Jesus. And when they tell you you are wrong or when they ask you if you believe in the trinity or in original sin or OSAS or Arminianism or free grace or a pre-trib rapture, you can just give them a wink and a grin and say, 'Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about; I've got stuff to do with Jesus and I'm busy.'

That's an unusually cheap shot coming from a guy who has engaged at length and repeatedly in numerous docrtinal debates here, including on the ones you just listed. Change of heart?

 

[Cedarbay]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning. They argue over whether or not I am a calvinist: I believe that when God creates a person, he knows if He makes them with a certain personality and puts them in a certain circumstance (believing parents vs. non-believing/ America vs. Iran) that they will or will not believe. He could make them otherwise. I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.
What makes me uncertain is that there is election and it is predetermined, but a denial of total depravity, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. Thanks for any help in understanding this.

I would suggest spending some time at this website.

http://www.monergism.com/

and begin with this topic:

http://www.monergism.com/topics/total-depravity-man

 

[beloved57]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning. They argue over whether or not I am a calvinist: I believe that when God creates a person, he knows if He makes them with a certain personality and puts them in a certain circumstance (believing parents vs. non-believing/ America vs. Iran) that they will or will not believe. He could make them otherwise. I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.
What makes me uncertain is that there is election and it is predetermined, but a denial of total depravity, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. Thanks for any help in understanding this.

Thats inconsistent ! To believe is an act of obedience ! And Faith please God Heb 11:6, which they in the flesh cannot Rom 8:8 !

 

[musterion]

Thats inconsistent ! To believe is an act of obedience !

Right, it is!

So now explain 2 Thess 2:12.

 

[heir]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning. They argue over whether or not I am a calvinist: I believe that when God creates a person, he knows if He makes them with a certain personality and puts them in a certain circumstance (believing parents vs. non-believing/ America vs. Iran) that they will or will not believe. He could make them otherwise. I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.
What makes me uncertain is that there is election and it is predetermined, but a denial of total depravity, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. Thanks for any help in understanding this.

Hi themystery,

God doesn't create each person. God created man (Adam) in His image (Genesis 1:27 KJV, Genesis 5:1-2 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:14 KJV).
We are all born after Adam fell and after his image (Genesis 5:3 KJV, Romans 5:12 KJV). I just had to get that out of the way

The Bible doesn't say anything about God placing us in believing or unbelieving households, but what it does say is that God foreknew who would believe and those whom He did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son (Romans 8:29-30 KJV). It's about the believers of Paul's gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) being predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself (Ephesians 1:1-6 KJV). This is not to say as the Calvinist may say, that God makes some to believe while others are made to be damned. Nothing could be further from the truth! Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17 KJV). The man Christ Jesus gave Himself a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV)!

Grab your King James Bible and believe the words on the page mean what they say, as they say it and to whom they say it. The understanding will come! Believe first!

 

[heir]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning.

Just a heads up, but Beloved 57 is none of those. He's just a :troll: who can't even answer when there has ever been a moment in his life when he trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of his salvation. Because if he did, he would be an unbeliever by his own twisted definition of one. See, he believes that we are believers before we even believe IKR?! :dizzy:

 

[heir]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning.

Just a heads up, but Beloved 57 is none of those. He's just a :troll: who can't even answer when has there been a moment in his life when he trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of his salvation. Because if he did, he would be an unbeliever by his own twisted definition of one. See, he believes that we are believers before we even believe IKR?! :dizzy:

 

[beloved57]

Right, it is!

So now explain 2 Thess 2:12.

Read my threads!

 

[heir]

I have two friends. One calvinist and the other is not. They are both more knowledgeable than me, but I am learning. They argue over whether or not I am a calvinist: I believe that when God creates a person, he knows if He makes them with a certain personality and puts them in a certain circumstance (believing parents vs. non-believing/ America vs. Iran) that they will or will not believe. He could make them otherwise. I believe that man is incapable of obedience to God before regeneration in his natural state but able to believe in the Gospel and be saved.
What makes me uncertain is that there is election and it is predetermined, but a denial of total depravity, irresistible grace, and limited atonement. Thanks for any help in understanding this.

As to your friends, they may be "knowledgeable" in religion that has nothing to do with the truth of the word of God. Stick with the word of God! God wants you to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth!

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If I can make a suggestion to you it would be to read Romans through Philemon as they were written TO us and Paul writes to consider what He says and the Lord give thee understanding in all things!

2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Timothy 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

 

[musterion]

Read my threads!

That's what I thought.

 

[heir]

No.

:rotfl:

 

[musterion]

And no!

 

[beloved57]

That's what I thought.

And you thought right!

 

[beloved57]

Just a heads up, but Beloved 57 is none of those. He's just a :troll: who can't even answer when there has ever been a moment in his life when he trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of his salvation. Because if he did, he would be an unbeliever by his own twisted definition of one. See, he believes that we are believers before we even believe IKR?! :dizzy:

You are not a believer, since you reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, which is set forth in Tulip!

 

[heir]

You are not a believer, since you reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, which is set forth in Tulip!

Silence!

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV); which is that Christ died for our sins and that He was bured and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). I trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing it and am saved and sealed( Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)! When was there ever a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing IT?








See what I mean, themystery?

 

[beloved57]

Silence!

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV); which is that Christ died for our sins and that He was bured and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). I trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing it and am saved and sealed( Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)! When was there ever a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing IT?








See what I mean, themystery?

You don't believe the Gospel of Christ!