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Paul wrote THIRTEEN epistles. Don't you think he'd mention it at least once if it was true?
Argument from silence... like Apostolic Succession.
ECT All Things the 'Catechism of the Catholic Church'
- Thread starter Idolater
- Start date
Argument from silence... like Apostolic Succession.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Me too! Where do you think I found the bishops? (Hint not irl.)
There's zero evidence outside of Dispensationalist narrative that there was ever anything other than a single Gospel in all history.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
No . . . what you just did was argue from silence.
As for Apostolic Succession, you have been shown and re-shown and reminded again, what the definition of Apostolic Succession is defined to be. You just don't like the word. Perhaps if it were just called "episcopal succession" you wouldn't kick so hard against it.
Dispensationalism is a false doctrine of men that nullifies the Word of God.
You may have found bishops, but you won't find the pope.
False.
False.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
That doesn't matter at all. You want to convert to Orthodoxy, or Oriental Orthodoxy, or Ethiopian Orthodoxy, have at it; at least they are all ancient and credibly trace their founding to circa AD 33
You are going to have a hard time finding a parish though is my guess. I don't know where you hail from but dollars to donuts it's going to be easier to find a Catholic parish than any Orthodox parish, but the most popular Orthodox Churches are the Greek, Russian, and I forget the third most populous. Oriental Orthodoxy, Ethiopian Orthodoxy, I have no idea. They're very very small. Very limited footprint or territory. Catholicism and Orthodoxy (all of the Orthodoxies all together) are everywhere, but Catholicism is more saturated in more territores than any Orthodoxy is.
And they all have the office of a bishop, mentioned by name by the Apostle Paul in Scripture literally and explicitly, and the ancient Christian traditions trace their founding through the lineage of their bishops.
So you can pick whatever one you want to be Biblical and have a bishop, but I think Catholicism is easier than Orthodoxy, but it's a personal preference, like ethical matters that aren't super important, you can have your reasons but it's doesn't bind anyone else.
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Your reply had nothing do to with my comment and you are WRONG.
- The TWELVE and Paul separated their ministries per Gal 2.
- There are MANY gospels in the Bible.
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Again, you try to DODGE the obvious implications.
If believers in the body of Christ are sheep, why does Paul NEVER mention it?
The obvious answer is that believers in the body of Christ are NOT sheep.
Who cares what you "define"? It NOT BIBLICAL. That is the issue.
No, I don't like FALSE doctrines.
Roger Dodger.
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Paul was a dispensatonalist. Your argument is with him and the Word of God.
Of course it does.
It shows that your beliefs are tainted.
I think I'll just remain a Christian, thanks.
1) AD 33 is a few years after Christ's resurrection, and certainly after Paul became the first Christian.
Christianity began with Paul in AD 30, not the Twelve in AD 29. Paul was given his dispensation about a year after Christ rose from the dead/ascended.
Christ died and rose again and ascended around AD 29, not AD 33, because Jesus was born around 4 BC, and was 30 when His ministry began, and 33 when He was crucified.
2) If you're going to insist your religion a) began in AD 33 and b) is therefore the correct one, then I'm going to challenge that by making the claim that mine is older, because it began in AD 30, and therefore more correct.
Both of us would be wrong to do so, of course, because that's called an appeal to tradition.
3) Paul, as RD said above, was a dispensationalist. He believed that Christ had given him a dispensation different than what He had given the Twelve.
What DOES matter is making sure we're not participating in and encouraging false teaching.
It may have been at one point. But currently, it is not.
PROLOGUE
"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" - than the name of JESUS.
I. THE LIFE OF MAN - TO KNOW AND LOVE GOD
1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.
2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."4 Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."
3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.
Right Divider
Body part
That's WAY too much credit.
PROLOGUE
"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" - than the name of JESUS.
I. THE LIFE OF MAN - TO KNOW AND LOVE GOD
1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.
2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."4 Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."
3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.
GUARDING THE DEPOSIT OF FAITH IS THE MISSION WHICH THE LORD ENTRUSTED TO HIS CHURCH, and which she fulfills in every age. The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, which was opened 30 years ago by my predecessor Pope John XXIII, of happy memory, had as its intention and purpose to highlight the Church's apostolic and pastoral mission, and by making the truth of the Gospel shine forth to lead all people to seek and receive Christ's love which surpasses all knowledge (cf. Eph 3:19).
- His Holiness Pope Saint John Paul II
JP2, always a crowd pleaser