Abortion///cont.

[eider]

I believe that sterilization as well as tubal ligations should be more affordable and easier to access for men and women who have no desire to be parents. Also, comprehension sex education (which includes abstinence) is something that all teens should have access to ... IF the intent is to actually prevent unplanned pregnancies.



The only time I would favor medical intervention in a pregnancy would be to save the life of the mother, though the intent would not be to end one life but rather save both. From my view, the only reason to be against abortion is to prevent the death of unborn babies. The innocence of the child does not depend on how they were conceived.

I do appreciate that you are almost totally against abortion. You can see that my opinion falls short of yours.

Two points.
I am very pleased to read that you do have some support for people who wish to be sterilised. Some people, often religious people, are totally against any form of contraception, so I didn't know what to expect from you about that. I did note your 'IF'.... with regard to teenagers in sex education. Fair enough.

Could you tell me, is your conviction about abortion connected to your faith? I'm guessing that it is but I don't want to seem assuming. My point is that your last paragraph mentions the innocence of the babies. Do you believe that we are born in innocence?

 

[quip]

Where's this leading?

Will you somehow argue that the treatment of a pregnant woman's pathology may indirectly and unintentionally cause the death of an unborn child... therefore women should be allowed to kill their unborn children deliberately and directly for any reason at all?

If one relative theory of life allows for exceptions....should not an alternate one?

 

[glassjester]

If one relative theory of life allows for exceptions....should not an alternate one?

Feel free to explain the exceptions you have in mind.

 

[quip]

Make your point, Quip.

It is morally illicit to directly and deliberately take the life of an unborn child, just as much as it is to take the life of a born child.

Do you disagree?

Yes. The circumstantial exceptions demark differing moral (thus, legal) standards.

 

[glassjester]

Not at all. The circumstantial exceptions demark differing moral (thus, legal) standards.

Do you believe the deliberate and direct killing of an unborn child is the moral equivalent of the deliberate and direct killing of a born child?

 

[eider]

I wasn't insane. That was another guy. I actually care about those kids and work in a foodbank on my off days to 'feed' those children.
Several children are alive today because I am on the planet because I made sure to meet that need.

Which of us is a hypocrite and fraud (either? if you are doing what you are supposed to be doing)? Sentiment doesn't get-er-done. Put your time, talent, $ where your mouth is OR all the above applies AND you know it. I AM pro-life, not a fraud. What about you? :think:

Good for you! So all that bluster over the thought of a proper government plan supported by revenue/taxation for the provision of all medicare, education AND school meals was ........ rubbish?

Now we're getting somewhere.

All you have to agree to now is that persons born disabled in-any-way should and would be supported in day-by-day medicare-plus for their WHOLE-LIVES.

Oh.... and offspring from rape would need full support unto adulthood.

Just agree to all that and you're off the hook.

 

[glassjester]

Good for you!

Do you think abortion should remain legal, unless the government provides free healthcare?

 

[eider]

Duck and dive? It's the same question you've been avoiding all along.

Maybe I should rephrase it. Do you think abortion should be illegal?

Oh yeah? How about my question which you duck and dive under? Eh?

Look....... you can't answer straight...... I understand.

In a country where abortion is totally illegal, would you absolutely support total medicare, education and school meals et all for children to infancy or junior age? YES or NO?
Also, would support total medicare et all for everybody born disabled FOR LIFE? YES or NO?
Also, would you support all persons born from rape until adulthood? YES or NO?

I'll be kind to you. In a country where abortion would be illegal I would support ALL of tghose tenets. How about you?

It's Ok...... you'll never answer!

 

[quip]

Do you believe the deliberate and direct killing of an unborn child is the moral equivalent of the deliberate and direct killing of a born child?

No. Supra.

 

[Lon]

Good for you! So all that bluster over the thought of a proper government plan supported by revenue/taxation for the provision of all medicare, education AND school meals was ........ rubbish?

Now we're getting somewhere.

All you have to agree to now is that persons born disabled in-any-way should and would be supported in day-by-day medicare-plus for their WHOLE-LIVES.

Oh.... and offspring from rape would need full support unto adulthood.

Just agree to all that and you're off the hook.

I CANNOT take care of more than the Lord has allowed me to take care of. Abortion in a starving country in Africa is still wrong, even if many of those children die. I don't believe in mercy killing, nor especially that which takes their lives without their say so. Ask one of those children that are starving to death if it is 'okay.' Me? Can't do it. Won't do it. Somehow, taking their life seems to be wicked UPON wicked to me.

You and I will likely never see eye-to-eye. I believe mine honors God and man the correct way, the more loving way, the more intelligent/logical way. You won't be able to change my mind on that.

 

[glassjester]

I'll be kind to you. In a country where abortion would be illegal I would support ALL of tghose tenets. How about you?

But unless all of those things happen, you support the killing of unborn children. Yes?

 

[glassjester]

I CANNOT take care of more than the Lord has allowed me to take care of. Abortion in a starving country in Africa is still wrong, even if many of those children die. I don't believe in mercy killing, nor especially that which takes their lives without their say so. Ask one of those children that are starving to death if it is 'okay.' Me? Can't do it. Won't do it. Somehow, taking their life seems to be wicked UPON wicked to me.

You and I will likely never see eye-to-eye. I believe mine honors God and man the correct way, the more loving way, the more intelligent/logical way. You won't be able to change my mind on that.

Excellent post, Lon!

That's exactly what Eider is promoting - mercy killing. Good call.

 

[glassjester]

No. Supra.

I am trying to understand your point of view.

You agreed that the deliberate and direct killing of an unborn child is immoral. Is there any situation at all in which this would be morally licit? I say no.

 

[glassjester]

I CANNOT take care of more than the Lord has allowed me to take care of. Abortion in a starving country in Africa is still wrong, even if many of those children die. I don't believe in mercy killing, nor especially that which takes their lives without their say so. Ask one of those children that are starving to death if it is 'okay.' Me? Can't do it. Won't do it. Somehow, taking their life seems to be wicked UPON wicked to me.

You and I will likely never see eye-to-eye. I believe mine honors God and man the correct way, the more loving way, the more intelligent/logical way. You won't be able to change my mind on that.

By his logic, he should promote complete genocide in every third world country - not to mention the killing of almost every human being in history.

 

[quip]

I am trying to understand your point of view.

You agreed that the deliberate and direct killing of an unborn child is immoral.

Not unequivocally so...though many could be claimed as such.

Is there any situation at all in which this would be morally licit? I say no.

That's odd because you offered up a few of your own examples.

 

[eider]

I CANNOT take care of more than the Lord has allowed me to take care of. Abortion in a starving country in Africa is still wrong, even if many of those children die. I don't believe in mercy killing, nor especially that which takes their lives without their say so. Ask one of those children that are starving to death if it is 'okay.' Me? Can't do it. Won't do it. Somehow, taking their life seems to be wicked UPON wicked to me.

Threre you go, wandering out of your own country in order to avoid answering those three simple questions:
1. Would you support additional taxation or health plan cover (paid by the people) to provide full medicare et all for AL children to infancy or Junior age?
2. Full WHOLE-LIFE medicare for all persons bornm disabled?
3. Full medicare et all for rape births unto adulthood?
Your not in Africa or wherever, so you need to answer for your own country.
Simple........ if you're genuine.

You and I will likely never see eye-to-eye. I believe mine honors God and man the correct way, the more loving way, the more intelligent/logical way. You won't be able to change my mind on that.

You have no clue what I believe about this. You just assume everything.
I would be prepared to support legislation to outlaw abortion!
You're just so prejudiced that you jump on any bandwagon. Prejudiced-is-you.
BUT..... full medicare et all for all children.
Full Medicare day-by-day for all disabled births FOR LIFE.
Full medicare to adulthood for births caused by rape.
Full sex education for all children.
Much better provision for adoption.
Special provision for women who might die in pregnancy or birth.

But you avoided supporting all of the above. That makes you a sham imo.

 

[glassjester]

Not unequivocally so...though many could be claimed as such.

What makes the immoral cases immoral?

That's odd because you offered up a few of your own examples.

The chemotherapy and ectopic pregnancy examples were about unintentional and indirect killing - the exact opposite of an abortion (the purpose of which is the death of the child).

 

[eider]

By his logic, he should promote complete genocide in every third world country - not to mention the killing of almost every human being in history.

Lon's post was written to me, so I'm guessing you wrote about me.
How can my logic for full medicare et all for all children and disabled-for-life enable your twisted mind to figure out that I would support genocides?

You don't support any of the above, which just shows you up for a fraud..... :idunno:

 

[glassjester]

Lon's post was written to me, so I'm guessing you wrote about me.
How can my logic for full medicare et all for all children and disabled-for-life enable your twisted mind to figure out that I would support genocides?

You don't support any of the above, which just shows you up for a fraud..... :idunno:

Do you support the deliberate killing of unborn children, if their government doesn't provide them with free healthcare?

 

[Lon]

By his logic, he should promote complete genocide in every third world country - not to mention the killing of almost every human being in history.

He doesn't understand his illogical thinking....yet.