Aborted Baby Cells in Drink Research

[GuySmiley]

What hypocrisy? Every time I have listened to Pastor Bob talk about science he is too busy misrepresenting it to show any understanding.

Alate's hypocrisy.

 

[Jukia]

Alate's hypocrisy.

Hmm, I'll have to think about that, not sure where the hypocrisy is,other than not having a strong enough stomach to listen to the show. I am pretty certain that I have never seen Alate misrepresent anything however, as opposed to Pastor Bob.
I guess the question is which is the bigger sin---hypocrisy or lying.

 

[GuySmiley]

You said this:

I'm sorry but this "news" report is quite the hyperbole, based in Bob's (and the pro-life organization's) total ignorance of science.

The complaint is over a cell line (HEK 293) that was created in the 1970s from yes an aborted fetus' kidney which was transformed into a stable cell line using viral DNA. We're not talking about any company making NEW cell lines from aborted fetuses. There are plenty of cell lines out there that and not all were gathered ethically, but nearly all are from quite a long time ago. They are stable and useful which is why there's little need to make new ones and any that are are subject to a lot more scrutiny than the ones in the past.

It strikes me as a total waste of time to complain about a company that contracted out a test to another company that used a standard cell line which was created from a sample that just happened to come from a process that is considered to be bad.

Why on earth would you bother boycotting any of the companies involved? No fetuses will be saved. The one in question died 30 years ago.

You saying here that Bob was unaware that this cell line was created in the 70's. Notice you never mention a complaint about the show title. You were ignorant to the fact that Bob discussed that the cell line was old extensively in the show.

Then you said:

I've listened to his shows before, they are mostly a long string of ignorant statements when any type of science is involved.

Besides it's pretty obvious from the summary that Bob considers the research "unethical" and is actively trying to make the research sound worse than it is by titling the show "Aborted Baby Cells in Drink Research".

Why use the word "besides" if it was your original point? Obviously it wasn't, you never mentioned it in your first post. You were ignorant about what Bob even said, you just wanted to be a critic. What would you say to someone criticising a science article for something that was clearly covered in the article?

You honestly think I need to listen to every one of Bob's shows to know that he's ignorant of science? That's like saying I have to listen to Fox news every day to make sure they're still right wing. You can claim hypocrisy all you like, fact is Bob doesn't know science very well, and he spends a lot of his time distorting it.

But in this case you specifically called him out on something that he was right about. You can't just assume he's ignorant of science and then criticise him for stuff you just make up, you should criticise things he actually said. Well . . . you can, but it makes you look stupid.

It isn't? Are you sure you're reading the correct person's posts, because my initial post covered what I just said. I think you're determined to attack me because it's very easy to shoot down Bob's silly assertions. You'd find some other basis had I listened to the entire show anyway.

Please point out where your original post covered it. What you are doing is thread crapping. Its a pet peeve of mine. Jukia is the king of it. But you should stop and consider your criticism before you make it. I had to learn that the hard way with the Phy myself.

I don't have some vendetta against you, I actually like you. You are a Christian evolutionist who will actually defend Christianity from time to time. I've noticed that was completely lacking in most Christian evolutionits on TOL; they are simply all about evolution and wont write anything to stand up for their professed beliefs. I'm not someone who believes you can't be a Christian evolutionist. I'd still be Christian if I were an evolutionist.

 

[GuySmiley]

Hmm, I'll have to think about that, not sure where the hypocrisy is,other than not having a strong enough stomach to listen to the show. I am pretty certain that I have never seen Alate misrepresent anything however, as opposed to Pastor Bob.
I guess the question is which is the bigger sin---hypocrisy or lying.

She claims Bob is ignorant, then goes on to explain how the cells in question are from an aborted baby in the 70's, a long time ago. In the show Bob explains that and discusses it with his guest for quite a while. She doesn't listen to the show, she just criticises it. She did the same thing a couple weeks ago on a different Bob Enyart show. What would you say if Stripe posted about a science journal article and said a bunch of stuff the scientists didn't know, but those things were clearly covered in the article?

Oh, and I know what you mean about hypocrisy or lying, she should just admit she was wrong and move on. But geez Jukia, you dont have to pile on like that.

 

[Stripe]

She claims Bob is ignorant, then goes on to explain how the cells in question are from an aborted baby in the 70's, a long time ago. In the show Bob explains that and discusses it with his guest for quite a while. She doesn't listen to the show, she just criticises it. She did the same thing a couple weeks ago on a different Bob Enyart show. What would you say if Stripe posted about a science journal article and said a bunch of stuff the scientists didn't know, but those things were clearly covered in the article?

Alate has a long history of complaining that people do not read her links or watch her videos. Then she has the temerity to criticise that which she herself will never listen to.

Total hypocrisy and extremely unbecoming.

 

[ApologeticJedi]

As a general rule I never participate in boycotts. The Bible doesn't seem to support them.

Besides being largely ineffective, according to scriptures one may eat even meat that was sacrificed to an idol. How much more blasphemous can a company get than that? It violates the greatest of all commandments (the actual sacrifice to an idol) and yet Paul says it is okay to buy their products.

 

[Alate_One]

She claims Bob is ignorant, then goes on to explain how the cells in question are from an aborted baby in the 70's, a long time ago. In the show Bob explains that and discusses it with his guest for quite a while.

I didn't explain that because I assumed Bob didn't explain it. I explained it so that people reading the idiotic title Bob gave the show (and the eyecatching title for the thread) would have some context without listening to it and fishing around the links Bob gave (which is what I did originally to find out about the cell line and I assumed Bob knew what the links said).

She doesn't listen to the show, she just criticises it.

You don't read what I'm saying. You read into what I'm saying, make assumptions and then criticize.

She did the same thing a couple weeks ago on a different Bob Enyart show. What would you say if Stripe posted about a science journal article and said a bunch of stuff the scientists didn't know, but those things were clearly covered in the article?

I didn't say that Bob didn't know the things I posted, only that he was making a ridiculous title and description of what was going on. The fact that he knows what is actually going on just makes his idiotic title worse, which is partly why I posted.

The ignorance comes in getting upset over what is many stages (and decades) removed from an aborted baby. They know the facts in the abstract, but they apparently haven't sunk in.

 

[Alate_One]

Alate has a long history of complaining that people do not read her links or watch her videos. Then she has the temerity to criticise that which she herself will never listen to.

Total hypocrisy and extremely unbecoming.

You're a liar and extremely unbecoming for a Christian. Perhaps you missed my last post on one of Bob's shows where I specifically addressed much of what he said, while I listened to the show? He mentioned my name and I even pointed out he mispronounced it. But sure I'd NEVER listen to his shows, ever.

 

[Stripe]

You're a liar

That's a serious charge, Alate. Can you show me exactly where I have lied?

Perhaps you missed my last post on one of Bob's shows where I specifically addressed much of what he said, while I listened to the show? He mentioned my name and I even pointed out he mispronounced it. But sure I'd NEVER listen to his shows, ever.

Have you listened to the show that is the topic of this thread yet?

 

[Alate_One]

That's a serious charge, Alate. Can you show me exactly where I have lied?

You said I would NEVER listen to Bob's show. I have listened in the past. Therefore, you lied in stating that I would NEVER do something that I've already done.

Have you listened to the show that is the topic of this thread yet?

Not as of yet, that doesn't mean I won't If I feel it's warranted. My main problem with this was really the thread itself. The title/show summary title is inflammatory in the extreme.

 

[Stripe]

You said I would NEVER listen to Bob's show. I have listened in the past. Therefore, you lied in stating that I would NEVER do something that I've already done.

Ummm .. Alate. I know you've listened to BEL in the past. You know I know this. Can you please try to re-read what I said with this in mind. :up:

Not as of yet, that doesn't mean I won't If I feel it's warranted. My main problem with this was really the thread itself. The title/show summary title is inflammatory in the extreme.

If you ever decide to listen, let us know. :thumb:

In the meantime, the thread title is perfectly accurate. Pepsi does research that uses cell lines developed from the kidney of a murdered child. Do you think a company would have or should conduct research on a cell line developed from the kidney of a Jewish concentration camp prisoner?

 

[Alate_One]

Ummm .. Alate. I know you've listened to BEL in the past. You know I know this. Can you please try to re-read what I said with this in mind. :up:

That's not what you said or implied.

In the meantime, the thread title is perfectly accurate. Pepsi does research that uses cell lines developed from the kidney of a murdered child.

But it sounds like, to the uninitiated, that recently aborted babies are being continually harvested for their cells to use in "drink research". That is what the average person would probably think.

Do you think a company would have or should conduct research on a cell line developed from the kidney of a Jewish concentration camp prisoner?

If they're useful cell lines and used by the scientific community . . . Frankly I don't see a difference. The origin of the cells does not necessarily make using the cells CURRENTLY unethical.

 

[Stripe]

That's not what you said or implied.

:squint: Of course I didn't say or imply that! What are you talking about?

But it sounds like, to the uninitiated, that recently aborted babies are being continually harvested for their cells to use in "drink research". That is what the average person would probably think.

So people who do not investigate are generally uninformed. :idunno:

If they're useful cell lines and used by the scientific community . . . Frankly I don't see a difference.

Wow. That's really sad, Alate.

 

[Alate_One]

:squint: Of course I didn't say or imply that? What are you talking about?

Never mind, you're just going to deny it forever. It's a waste of a discussion to have with you.

Wow. That's really sad, Alate.

Why? If you were a victim of something awful, wouldn't you rather your cells be used for something useful rather than simply being gone? Granted drink research is rather frivolous but the HEK cell line is used for a lot more important things than that.

 

[Stripe]

If you were a victim of something awful, wouldn't you rather your cells be used for something useful rather than simply being gone?

When I'm dead I will not be overly concerned with my discarded body. While I am alive I will show some common decency.

This child was murdered. Papering over that fact is a gross violation of every moral fibre. Trying to make better soft drinks is no justification for ignoring that moral outrage.

 

[Jukia]

In the meantime, the thread title is perfectly accurate. Pepsi does research that uses cell lines developed from the kidney of a murdered child. Do you think a company would have or should conduct research on a cell line developed from the kidney of a Jewish concentration camp prisoner?

Ah the old apples and oranges. Comparing a fetus with a concentration camp inmate. Standard fundy nonsense. Although it was OK for Stripe's personal deity to drown lots of little walking around breathing children at one time, so much for the value of life.

Have a problem, don't drink Pepsi, its not healthy for you anyway.

I find it extremely ironic that Stripe seems to have taken offense at being called a liar. I am pretty sure he has called me that, but when that happens I just chalk it up to Stripe's self imposed ignorance and undeserved self-importance.

 

[Stripe]

Ah the old apples and oranges. Comparing a fetus with a concentration camp inmate. Standard fundy nonsense. Although it was OK for Stripe's personal deity to drown lots of little walking around breathing children at one time, so much for the value of life.

Not really, Jukia. Alate is smart enough to know that a person with a brain, a central nervous system and a kidney is just as fully human as you or I.

Have a problem, don't drink Pepsi.

What will that solve? :squint:

 

[Jukia]

Not really, Jukia. Alate is smart enough to know that a person with a brain, a central nervous system and a kidney is just as fully human as you or I.

Well then at the very least there should be no issue with morning after pills, since at that stage there is no brain, CNS or kidney.

 

[Stripe]

Well then at the very least there should be no issue with morning after pills, since at that stage there is no brain, CNS or kidney.

You wish!

At conception what we have is a human being. Deliberately ending the life of that person is murder.

And I believe you're dissembling. That people find it easy to equivocate when the person is at his tiniest is no argument against what has been said in the radio show or by those who disagree with Alate in this thread. In this thread we are talking about a person by all but the most bizarre of standards.

What is your standard for personhood, Jukia?

 

[ApologeticJedi]

Ah the old apples and oranges. Comparing a fetus with a concentration camp inmate. Standard fundy nonsense.

Certainly all metaphors break down at some point. I fail to see how this one breaks down any quicker than others. Are they different? Sure. Enough similarities do exist to make the comparison though. Hardly apples and oranges.

I'm unlikely to boycott anyone, but I think you are being reactionary.

Although it was OK for Stripe's personal deity to drown lots of little walking around breathing children at one time, so much for the value of life.

Well I believe a judge can use his discression to issue a search warrant but not my neighbor. Perhaps Stripe believes that just because someone in authority can do something, doesn't make it right for Stripe.