A Summary of the Manganese Thread

[Jukia]

Johnny: Jukia is a he (long story--involving alcohol, video game and a woman)

I tracked down James Hein, he works for USGS
His response:
1. Niether he nor anyone that he knows in the scientific community knows Yates.
2. Deep sea manganese nodules grow at the rate he stated.
3. Yates was talking about Baltic Sea deposits which form in shallow water and could make a thin patina of iron and manganese on a beer can.
4. There are some other areas of fast growing nodules in shallow water in lakes and some marine settings. The Baltic Sea nodules are the best studied and most widespread.

So, Pastor Bob, Hein and Yates were not talking about the same thing. So find Yates to see if he can dispute Hein, otherwise---Game, Set, Match.

 

[Johnny]

Thank you Jukia.

"As is well known, there are clear differences in the morphology, min- eralogy, composition and growth rates between shallow-marine ferromanganese concretions and deep-sea manganese nodules which makes direct comparison between the two difficult (Glasby 2000). We consider the high growth rates of shallow-water concretions (3-4 orders of magnitude higher than those of deep-sea nodules) to be an indirect argument in favour of their biogenic formation since their rate of formation from purely inorganic processes would not be expected to be sufficiently high to lead to the observed growth rates."

Source: http://www.geo.lt/Baltica/B15/23-29.pdf

I've been reading up a lot on this lately. It appears that manganese nodules can form rapidly under certain conditions. Nodules have been found in lake beds that are only a few thousand years old. Nonetheless, these nodules are clearly distinguishable from deep sea nodules. Dating also indicates that the nodules are very young, which lends support to the dating methods used.

 

[Jukia]

some additional info from James Hein.
Ages of nodules are based on growth rates detemined by several independent methods. 4 radiometric methods, empirical equations based on chemical composition, paleomagnetic stratigraphy, nannofossil biostratigraphy.
All the methods give consistent results. Imagine, go figure.

 

[Johnny]

Ages of nodules are based on growth rates detemined by several independent methods. 4 radiometric methods, empirical equations based on chemical composition, paleomagnetic stratigraphy, nannofossil biostratigraphy.

I posted a paper earlier for Bob b detailing the methods of dating. There was a whole table, probably a good 8 or 9 independent methods. It appears the URL for the paper has moved though. I'm trying to relocate it. Edit: Could just be my craptastic computer. Try this url: http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/feb102000/OCEANRESEARCH4.pdf. Page 4.

All the methods give consistent results. Imagine, go figure.

Suprise suprise.

 

[Jukia]

Pastor Enyart, any further comment?

 

[Johnny]

Bump in light of the recent silence from both Bob and his flock. Perhaps Bob will sticky this thread. Other than my subjective comments, Bob's arguments are clearly outlined objectively for everyone to make their own call. His arguments need no commenting.