Ben Masada
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Why LOL, because you did not understand or because you do not agree?
A Messianic Jewish Perspective
- Thread starter Ben Masada
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Why LOL, because you did not understand or because you do not agree?
Ben Masada
New member
He didn't want to refer to himself as Matthew, so he wrote in third person. That was simply the old him- you seriously think that the entire church agreed that Matthew wrote the book and straight up overlooked that verse? I'll take sense over your nonsense
Good! At least you have found some sense in my nonsense. I am happy for you all the same. If not for that, how about for Mat. 1:18? Could a Jew have ever reached for the Greek concept of the demigod to explain the way Jesus was born? I don't think so! You guys will never understand how big this mess is as long as you operate under Christian preconceived notions.
TweetyBird
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Because it's anti-missionary nonsense.
Ben Masada
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Of course! Should I expect you to act without Christian preconceived notions by finding sense in my comments? That goes without saying!
beameup
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That must be some kind of "reformed" Judaism, as the vast majority of religious Jews look forward to the coming Messiah.
The congregations in Israel are 100% Jewish, just like the 1st century Jewish Messianics - absolutely no difference, except for the lack of a Temple.
HisServant
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beameup
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Apparently God is keeping track of Jewish genealogies:
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
HisServant
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So what if he is? No one on this earth has.. and they cannot dwell in the land unless they know their tribe.
People seem to forget that God owned the land.. the Israelites were just tenants.
TweetyBird
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Christianity is founded in the NT. Those who are not Christians do not understand that we believe the NT is inspired by God. Do you believe the NT is inspired by God?
beameup
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In the land shall be his [Messiah] possession in Israel: and my princes shall no more oppress my people; and the rest of the land shall they give to the house of Israel according to their tribes. Ezek 45:8
So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel. Ezek 47:21
Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the
way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward,
to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.
And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it. The oblation that ye shall offer unto the LORD shall be of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth. And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand in length, and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in the midst thereof. It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept my charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray. And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites. - Ezek 48:8-12
As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion
And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion.
And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar unto the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea. This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD. 48:23-29
So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel. Ezek 47:21
Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the
way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward,
to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.
And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it. The oblation that ye shall offer unto the LORD shall be of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth. And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand in length, and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in the midst thereof. It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept my charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray. And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites. - Ezek 48:8-12
As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion
And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion.
And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar unto the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea. This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD. 48:23-29
TweetyBird
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That was all fulfilled during the days of Nehemiah and Ezra when the walls of Jerusalem were rebuilt and the Temple was repaired. The remnant of all 12 tribes joined with Judah, Benjamin, and Levi and became the House of Israel as one nation, once again.
Yep!
Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
TweetyBird
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Why is there no mention of it in the NT, only the 12 gates into Heaven?
beameup
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This is the earthly temple, on Zion, in Jerusalem, where Yeshua Messiah will reign over the earth from Israel (ie: the KINGDOM)
In Acts 1 the resurrected Lord taught the eleven for forty days things concerning the Kingdom of heaven.
When asked by them, "Are you going to restore the Kingdom to Israel at this time?"
He replied that it was not for them to know the timing of it.
Peter offered the Kingdom to Israel on the requirement of their repentance in Acts 3. Though many individual Jews received Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah, the nation didn't. Peter told them that if they would repent, then GOD would send Jesus back to complete all things that were spoken by the prophets since the world began.
The ascended Christ raised up Paul for a new program. The new program to the nations is a mystery not previously known and is not according to prophecy for national Israel. There is no reason for mention of the prophetic plans for the twelve tribes during this new program. It's not about them. But there is more than enough information about it in the prophets of Israel. Why ignore it or discount it?
The LORD said that He would not lie to David nor alter what He said regarding David's throne. David's throne is Jerusalem and ruling over the twelve tribes reunited in the land promised. To believe otherwise is to believe that GOD lied to David and altered what He said about David's throne.
What does this mean if it doesn't mean what it says? :
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
[MENTION=15759]TweetyBird[/MENTION]
What does this mean?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
What does this mean?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
TweetyBird
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TweetyBird
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That's a lot of thrones to occupy all at once. Do you think it's literal?
Ben Masada
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Did Jesus believe the NT was inspired by God? Throughout the ministry of Jesus on earth, every time he referred to the Word of God, he had the Tanach in mind. The NT he never even dreamed it would ever rise. The NT was the gospel of Paul. Since I already believe in the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach, I can't straddle the issue between Jesus and Paul. As a good Christian, I hope you understand what I mean.