A Messianic Jewish Perspective

[Ben Masada]

A Messianic Jewish Perspective

Not all Messianic Jewish perspectives are the same. Here is my Messianic Jewish perspective:

According to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God. (Exodus 4:22,23)

That's Messiah according to the collective concept of the People. Based on that concept adopted by Prophet Habakkuk, all Jews uphold the collective concept of a Messianic Jew because they all are parts of the Messiah, aka Israel. That, by definition, is the real Messianic Jew.

Obviously, the individual cannot be the Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31)

 

[Wick Stick]

An anointed one.
The anointed one.

It seems you're having trouble telling the difference. Habakkuk 3:13 talks about an anointed one.

 

[jamie]

That's Messiah according to the collective concept of the People. Based on that concept adopted by Prophet Habakkuk, all Jews uphold the collective concept of a Messianic Jew because they all are parts of the Messiah, aka Israel. That, by definition, is the real Messianic Jew.

A fine example of bootstrap philosophy.

 

[Ben Masada]

An anointed one.
The anointed one.

It seems you're having trouble telling the difference. Habakkuk 3:13 talks about an anointed one.

According to the JPS translation of the Bible, "You have come forth to deliver Your People; to deliver Your Anointed." What's the difference? I am having no trouble at all. That's the same as "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One."

 

[Crucible]

The majority of Messianic Jews hold to the Trinity. They'll rather refer to Christ as 'God the Son' rather than the 'Son of God' as that was the message intended but the wording throws people off.

 

[Ben Masada]

A fine example of bootstrap philosophy.

That's a fine example of the Truth according to the Tanach aka the only Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God because the NT, Jesus never even dreamed would ever rise.

 

[Ben Masada]

The majority of Messianic Jews hold to the Trinity. They'll rather refer to Christ as 'God the Son' rather than the 'Son of God' as that was the message intended but the wording throws people off.

Well, that's their false Messianic Jewish perspective.

 

[jamie]

That's a fine example of the Truth according to the Tanach aka the only Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God because the NT, Jesus never even dreamed would ever rise.

Jesus affirmed the fact that a person can die twice. That's why he came as a man.

 

[beameup]

A Messianic Jewish Perspective

Not all Messianic Jewish perspectives are the same. Here is my Messianic Jewish perspective:
According to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God. (Exodus 4:22,23)
That's Messiah according to the collective concept of the People.

Nice job of "plucking" a phrase out of a passage of scripture and building an entire body of doctrine out of it. Habakkuk had a "vision", or as you say, a DREAM.

In indignation You marched through the earth;
In anger You trampled the nations. - Hab 3:12

The phrase from Habakkuk you quoted lies in a passage that is apocalyptic. The "Time of Jacob's Trouble" (ie: Day of the LORD) will surely come in the near future. It will make the plagues of Egypt pale in comparison. Are you ready to meet your Maker?

 

[Nick M]

Obviously, the individual cannot be the Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31

Daniel 9

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood,

Go and explain it away.

 

[Nick M]

Speaking of Jeremiah 31, that is a favorite of MAD. Don't expect the thieves to speak up here.

34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[daqq]

A Messianic Jewish Perspective

Not all Messianic Jewish perspectives are the same. Here is my Messianic Jewish perspective:

According to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God. (Exodus 4:22,23)

That's Messiah according to the collective concept of the People. Based on that concept adopted by Prophet Habakkuk, all Jews uphold the collective concept of a Messianic Jew because they all are parts of the Messiah, aka Israel. That, by definition, is the real Messianic Jew.

Obviously, the individual cannot be the Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31

Nice job of "plucking" a phrase out of a passage of scripture and building an entire body of doctrine out of it. Habakkuk had a "vision", or as you say, a DREAM.

The phrase from Habakkuk you quoted lies in a passage that is apocalyptic. The "Time of Jacob's Trouble" (ie: Day of the LORD) will surely come in the near future. It will make the plagues of Egypt pale in comparison. Are you ready to meet your Maker?

The OG Septuagint reads τους χριστους which is "anointed ones", (plural).
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/35_003.htm

Daniel 9

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood,

Go and explain it away.

Karath is also used in the sense of beheading, (1Sam 17:51, 1 Sam 31:9, 2 Sam 20:22), like Yohanan, an anointed one, (meshiyach anointing of Eliyahu).

Speaking of Jeremiah 31, that is a favorite of MAD. Don't expect the thieves to speak up here.

34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The passage also says:

Jeremiah 31:29-30 KJV
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

This is an old time proverb that was used to promote an old version of the original sin doctrine, (also mentioned in Ezekiel 18:1-20). It clearly says the original sin doctrine can no more be used, (Adam ate the sour grape and the children's teeth are set on edge). Every one shall die for his or her own iniquity in the Brit Hadashah, (Renewed Covenant).

 

[HisServant]

The inherant racism that exists in Messianic Judaism is a real problem for me. There are no Jews or Greeks in the body of Christ... holding onto some version of Judaism seems to violate that tenet. We are all equal in the body of Christ, there is no preference due to ethnicity or function within the body (clergy and laity are both equal).

 

[daqq]

The inherant racism that exists in Messianic Judaism is a real problem for me. There are no Jews or Greeks in the body of Christ... holding onto some version of Judaism seems to violate that tenet. We are all equal in the body of Christ, there is no preference due to ethnicity or function within the body (clergy and laity are both equal).

Accusing people of being racist for believing the scripture is the only problem I see here, especially when Paul teaches that the faithful are grafted into the olive tree of Israel, which is the "all Israel" of the Father, but that problem is only on your part and therefore your problem. There is no "Gentile olive tree" but you can start with Jeremiah 11:16-17 if you truly desire to see where Paul receives the analogy. You are only willing to label people racist because in reality you are not willing to actually do what Yeshua commands you to do in his teachings and doctrine, and therefore, you actually neither believe the Testimony of Yeshua, (in statements such as Matthew 15:24), nor the writings and teachings of Paul who actually does teach the commandments, parables, teachings, idioms, and sayings of the Master Yeshua which are found in the Gospel accounts.

 

[HisServant]

Accusing people of being racist for believing the scripture is the only problem I see here, especially when Paul teaches that the faithful are grafted into the olive tree of Israel, which is the "all Israel" of the Father, but that problem is only on your part and therefore your problem. There is no "Gentile olive tree" but you can start with Jeremiah 11:16-17 if you truly desire to see where Paul receives the analogy. You are only willing to label people racist because in reality you are not willing to actually do what Yeshua commands you to do in his teachings and doctrine, and therefore, you actually neither believe the Testimony of Yeshua, (in statements such as Matthew 15:24), nor the writings and teachings of Paul who actually does teach the commandments, parables, teachings, idioms, and sayings of the Master Yeshua which are found in the Gospel accounts.

Paul was also not talking about ethnic or practicing Jews there... Israel, according to the promise, is based on those that inherited and exhibit the faith that Abraham had (he was not a Jew).

So we are grafted into Abraham's faith, not the ethnically Jewish Israel.

We must throw away and disown Jewish practices simply because they were the total embodiment of failure. We are to learn from the failure, not embrace it.

 

[jamie]

(clergy and laity are both equal).

Laity? All are priests.

1 Peter 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood...

 

[daqq]

Paul was also not talking about ethnic or practicing Jews there... Israel, according to the promise, is based on those that inherited and exhibit the faith that Abraham had (he was not a Jew).

So we are grafted into Abraham's faith, not the ethnically Jewish Israel.

We must throw away and disown Jewish practices simply because they were the total embodiment of failure. We are to learn from the failure, not embrace it.

Others may think in terms of ethnicity but where have I said any such thing?
Aside from that you are out of context when it comes to what Paul speaks of in Romans 11:

Jeremiah 11:16-17 KJV
16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

The context concerns the house of Israel and the house of Judah, (just as the "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31-34 quoted in Hebrews 8:8-12 concerns only the house of Israel and the house of Judah), and these are the only olive tree of the all Israel of the Father. One does not get to say that he or she is grafted into the olive tree of the house of Israel and the house of Judah but at the same time gets to remain a Canaanite producing Canaanite fruit, (i.e. offering incense to Baal).

 

[HisServant]

Others may think in terms of ethnicity but where have I said any such thing?
Aside from that you are out of context when it comes to what Paul speaks of in Romans 11:

Jeremiah 11:16-17 KJV
16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

The context concerns the house of Israel and the house of Judah, (just as the "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31-34 quoted in Hebrews 8:8-12 concerns only the house of Israel and the house of Judah), and these are the only olive tree of the all Israel of the Father. One does not get to say that he or she is grafted into the olive tree of the house of Israel and the house of Judah but at the same time gets to remain a Canaanite producing Canaanite fruit, (i.e. offering incense to Baal).

I believe it is you that is taking it out of context. There is a reason why that scripture encompasses all 'Isreal'.. even though Isreal did not exist as the nation god created at the time.

You kind of have the same intellectual challenge as the Roman Catholics do.... how can they call themselves the 'church' when they unilaterally divorced themselves from their eastern orthodox brethren.

In this case you have the house of Judah laying claim to the nation of Israel... in spite it being composed of a minority of the tribes that were given the promise.

At the end of the day, you come to the realization that that Paul is talking about has nothing to do with the nation of ethnic people who identified with Israel and the House of Judah.

 

[TweetyBird]

According to the JPS translation of the Bible, "You have come forth to deliver Your People; to deliver Your Anointed." What's the difference? I am having no trouble at all. That's the same as "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One."

Do you have a verse that states Israel was anointed by God?

 

[Ben Masada]

Paul was also not talking about ethnic or practicing Jews there... Israel, according to the promise, is based on those that inherited and exhibit the faith that Abraham had (he was not a Jew).

So we are grafted into Abraham's faith, not the ethnically Jewish Israel.

We must throw away and disown Jewish practices simply because they were the total embodiment of failure. We are to learn from the failure, not embrace it.

Sorry but this is a demonstration of Replacement Theology.