99% Over, 47% of the Goal
- Thread starter Jefferson
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Zakath
Resident Atheist
"Impishly juvenile"??? I'm wounded ... :shocked:
After four years, I think you'd realize that there is always a point to my questions... sometimes it takes you longer to get to the point than others.
If you want to see the point, why don't you try asnwering my question, then?
"...does your deity want Enyart's show to survive?"
:think:
Zakath
Resident Atheist
Oops, I forgot you Enyartians aren't big on sarcasm... :chuckle:
Whether you are supporting Enyart or not isn't germaine to the question...
Since you believe that your deity wants Enyart's show to survive, why didn't he ensure that they would make the financial goal? :think:
Zakath
Resident Atheist
This is the same deity that "hardened the heart" of Pharaoh, right?
:think:
The same deity that Jesus himself told his disciples to plead that they not be lead into temptation by, right?
:think:
It appears that your understanding and the writers of your scriptures vary widely...
And you know this, how?
LOL... Zakath... you would think by now you would at least know the arguments! You don't have to accept them or even agree with them but you should at least know the positions by now.
Zakath, God didn't harden Pharoah's heart by sprinkling hardening dust over him while he slept. He created a situation that gave Pharoah the choice to harden his own heart and Pharoah took that choice. God shoved proof of His existence down Pharoah's throat by way of miracles. Pharoah could have responded by acknowledging God's existence but instead he rebelled even more as the following verses attest:
Exodus 8:15 - "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart,"
Exodus 8:19 - "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened"
Exodus 8:32 - "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go."
Pharoah hardened his own heart.
Exodus 8:15 - "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart,"
Exodus 8:19 - "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened"
Exodus 8:32 - "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go."
Pharoah hardened his own heart.
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Zakath
Resident Atheist
Nice bowl of cherry-picked verses there, Jefferson. But two can play that game with your bible...
"And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. "- Ex. 4:21
"And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. "- Ex. 7:3
"And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses..."-Ex. 9:12
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him..."- Ex. 10:1
"But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go." - Ex. 10:20
"But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go." - Ex. 10:27
And let's not think that YHWH just disliked Egyptians...
"But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day. " - Dt. 2:30
I am in no way trying to make any human blameless for their actions, but what mere mortal can resist the will of a god? YHWH was culpable for what occured by acting to "harden the heart" of more than one ancient ruler...
Zakath:
Here's an analogy of what was going on in Exodus 8. If you wanted to get a racist employee fired, you could wait until a time just before you knew your boss (ie. your African-American boss) would be walking into the room. As you see him walking down the hallway towards you both you quickly relay a story about some black man who raped a 5 year old white girl. You do this because you just know he's going to respond, "F...ing N..gers." Sure enough, he does just that, just as the boss walks past him. The result is exactly what you wanted. The boss fires him.
Now, did you cause him to be fired? Well, yes and no. You did set him up but you did not force him to be a racist nor did you force him to orally express his racism at that moment. You only created a situation that allowed him to freely express his true nature.
The alternative view is to take both expressions (God hardened Pharoah's heart and Pharoah hardened his own heart) literally which means you believe that Moses was suffering from Alzheimer's disease when he wrote Exodus. You would have to believe that as soon as he wrote that God hardened Pharoah's heart, Moses immediately forgot what he wrote and then wrote that Pharoah hardened his own heart and then forgot again and repeated the contradiction yet another time.
Is this what you actually believe?
Here's an analogy of what was going on in Exodus 8. If you wanted to get a racist employee fired, you could wait until a time just before you knew your boss (ie. your African-American boss) would be walking into the room. As you see him walking down the hallway towards you both you quickly relay a story about some black man who raped a 5 year old white girl. You do this because you just know he's going to respond, "F...ing N..gers." Sure enough, he does just that, just as the boss walks past him. The result is exactly what you wanted. The boss fires him.
Now, did you cause him to be fired? Well, yes and no. You did set him up but you did not force him to be a racist nor did you force him to orally express his racism at that moment. You only created a situation that allowed him to freely express his true nature.
The alternative view is to take both expressions (God hardened Pharoah's heart and Pharoah hardened his own heart) literally which means you believe that Moses was suffering from Alzheimer's disease when he wrote Exodus. You would have to believe that as soon as he wrote that God hardened Pharoah's heart, Moses immediately forgot what he wrote and then wrote that Pharoah hardened his own heart and then forgot again and repeated the contradiction yet another time.
Is this what you actually believe?
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