ECT 3 Questions for my MAD and YEC friends

[Nick M]

Agreed, but how do we get in Christ?

Believing the gospel. If you really believed him, you would not try to earn it or add to it.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for sin and was raised for our justification. This is a free gift. One still has to accept the free gift. To do so means to place your trust in what he did, not what you are doing. Trying to keep a good relationship and not backslide? Then you are outside Christ.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What was the purpose of water baptism and why has it been done away with?

The purpose was to prepare the way of the Lord:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mt.3:1-3).​

In Barnes' Notes on the Bible we read that "There are two words in the New Testament translated 'repentance,' one of which denotes a change of mind, or a reformation of life; and the other, sorrow or regret that sin has been committed. The word used here is the former, calling the Jews to a change of life, or a reformation of conduct" (Notes on the Bible, Albert Barnes, Commentary at Matthew 3:2).

In Vincent's word study we read "Repentance, then, has been rightly defined as 'Such a virtuous alteration of the mind and purpose as begets a like virtuous change in the life and practice'" (Vincent's Word Studies, by Marvin R. Vincent).

It was also in regard to having one's sins forgiven in regard to being in fellowship with the Lord (and not for salvation):

In the Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society David R. Anderson writes: "We are suggesting that John the Baptist, Jesus, and Peter had dual ministries. One was to call the nation of Israel back into fellowship with Yahweh. The covenant relationship had long since been established. The nation of Israel did not need a new relationship with God. But they were sorely lacking in fellowship...John the Baptist, Jesus, and Peter were all trying to persuade Israel to repentance and turning that would bring them back to a refreshing fellowship with God...Now as a nation they needed to repent and turn (Acts 3:19) in order to have fellowship with God" [emphasis added] (Anderson, "The National Repentance of Israel," Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society, Autumn 1998, Volume 11:21).

Later, submitting to the rite of water baptism resulted in believers receiving a gift bestowed by the Holy Spirit, that being spiritual gifts of the Spirit. That is no longer operational because todat the spiritual gifts have ceased.

The baptism to restore people to fellowship has been replaced by the confession of sins (1 Jn.1:9).

 

[Interplanner]

JerryS,
the order of baptism and the Spirits gifts was the other way around in Acts 2.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

JerryS,
the order of baptism and the Spirits gifts was the other way around in Acts 2.

Not here:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).​

 

[Danoh]

Not here:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).​

There is the very heart of your disagreeableness with so many - you read the opposite of what they say.

All you did was prove what Interplanner said was the case in Acts 2.

See, your issue is your so desperate a need to be the only one right - even within Mid-Acts - that you have rendered yourself unable to understand what someone has said unless they spell it out in detail (not that that helps you either).

And Interplanner is not one to spell a thing out in detail, lol

But you proved what he said about Acts 2 while attempting to prove him wrong.

What a buffoon you are in this consistent habit of yours.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is the very heart of your disagreeableness with so many - you read the opposite of what they say.

Prove it!

 

[Danoh]

Prove it!

Don't need to; you do it all by yourself, lol

Lol, we ought to take a poll; see how unpopular you really are.

Of course, your narcissism would attribute it to "them."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Don't need to.

Where I grew up in west Texas if you make accusations against someone you better be able to prove that accusation. But you make false accusations against me and when asked to prove that accusation you say--"Don't need to."

If you are truly a Christian you would not make accusations against someone else unless you have the proof and are willing to present that proof.

Your behavior is very un-Christian like and you couldn't care less.

 

[Danoh]

Where I grew up in west Texas if you make accusations against someone you better be able to prove that accusation. But you make false accusations against me and when asked to prove that accusation you say--"Don't need to."

If you are truly a Christian you would not make accusations against someone else unless you have the proof and are willing to present that proof.

Your behavior is very un-Christian like and you couldn't care less.

Nonsense. You are the one accusing people of all sorts of attempts to hide from dealing with you on the issues.

If they deal with you, they are wrong. If they don't they are hiding. If they deal with you, see how you are, and stop, then they are hiding.

As if you are so brilliant. When in fact, you are rather mediocre all the way around.

Why? Because you do not really care about the issues; your deal is to prove yourself right, everyone else wrong, and would they please repeat back to you why you are right.

Like I said, you prove this to be the case all by your Texas self.

Over, and over, and over...

And over...

 

[Tambora]

If you are truly a Christian you would not make accusations against someone else unless you have the proof and are willing to present that proof.

And in his next breath ....

Your behavior is very un-Christian like and you couldn't care less.

 

[DAN P]

Not here:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).​

H i Jerry , and you know that the last verb in verse 38 " SHALL RECEIVE " is in the Future Tense because Israel and Pentecost had and WILL SET ASIDE so why use that verse ??

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

The purpose was to prepare the way of the Lord:

Once Jesus' mission was complete he instituted baptism as the method to make disciples.

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

And that is exactly what we see the apostles teach and do.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, submitting to the rite of water baptism resulted in believers receiving a gift bestowed by the Holy Spirit, that being spiritual gifts of the Spirit. That is no longer operational because todat the spiritual gifts have ceased.

I agree that gifts have ceased, but water baptism is not how anyone in scripture received spiritual gifts.

Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

1 Jn. 1:9 is for Christians who have already been baptized.

If water baptism is not how one becomes a Christian, then why is it that all conversions we read about in scripture, that have any detail at all, end in baptism?

 

[DAN P]

Once Jesus' mission was complete he instituted baptism as the method to make disciples.

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

And that is exactly what we see the apostles teach and do.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



I agree that gifts have ceased, but water baptism is not how anyone in scripture received spiritual gifts.

Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

1 Jn. 1:9 is for Christians who have already been baptized.

If water baptism is not how one becomes a Christian, then why is it that all conversions we read about in scripture, that have any detail at all, end in baptism?

Hi and in Acts 8:16 , WATER BAPTISM is out !!

DAN P

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and in Acts 8:16 , WATER BAPTISM is out !!

DAN P

I'm not sure what you are saying? Are you saying they weren't water baptized?

Acts 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

If they hadn't received the Holy Spirit and had been baptized, then what kind of baptism was it if not water?

 

[Nick M]

Once Jesus' mission was complete he instituted baptism as the method to make disciples.

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

That doesn't apply to you. Want proof? I will show what you choose not to show.

20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

What all did he command? I am glad you asked.

2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

Do you observe and do what the Pharisee says? After his resurrection which you quoted in Matthew 28, he said to keep his commands. Which I show right here.

I notice you have no comment about the fact that he died for your sin and was raised for your justification. Did you just want to ignore it? I'll wait

 

[DAN P]

I'm not sure what you are saying? Are you saying they weren't water baptized?

Acts 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

If they hadn't received the Holy Spirit and had been baptized, then what kind of baptism was it if not water?

Hi and you finally see that there 2 different BAPTISM here Water and then teh Holy Spirit FALLING on them like in Acts 10:44-47 !!:deadhorse::deadhorse:

#1 , One Baptism is in Water !!

#2 , The other is the Power of the Holy Spirit and they spoke in Langguages

dan p

 

[patrick jane]

Hi and you finally see that there 2 different BAPTISM here Water and then teh Holy Spirit FALLING on them like in Acts 10:44-47 !!:deadhorse::deadhorse:

#1 , One Baptism is in Water !!

#2 , The other is the Power of the Holy Spirit and they spoke in Langguages

dan p

1 Corinthians 12:13-14 KJV -

View attachment 20024

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and you finally see that there 2 different BAPTISM here Water and then teh Holy Spirit FALLING on them like in Acts 10:44-47 !!:deadhorse::deadhorse:

#1 , One Baptism is in Water !!

#2 , The other is the Power of the Holy Spirit and they spoke in Langguages

dan p

Yes, but baptism with the Holy Spirit only happened twice and each was a special situation, the apostles and the first Gentile converts.

If HS baptism is the only one that matters, why did Peter command the Gentiles to be baptized with water?

Could it be because that is how one becomes a Christian?
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them

 

[turbosixx]

1 Corinthians 12:13-14 KJV -

View attachment 20024

That is talking about water and the Spirit as Jesus said.
Jn. 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God


Here we see it in action after Jesus' D,B&R.
Acts 2: 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism is how we receive the Holy Spirit and the Spirit places us in Christ when we obey the gospel by being water baptized.
19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them

What cleansed Namaan of his leprosy, was the water the only thing that cleansed him?
2 Kings 5:14 So he went down and dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, according to the word of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child and he was clean.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If water baptism is not how one becomes a Christian, then why is it that all conversions we read about in scripture, that have any detail at all, end in baptism?

A person becomes saved and becomes a Christian when he believes the gospel. Before anyone could be baptized with water he had to first believe:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).​

By the time anyone believes he is already saved:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

If water baptism is not how one becomes a Christian, then why is it that all conversions we read about in scripture, that have any detail at all, end in baptism?

Today there is only "one" baptism:

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph.4:4-6).​

The "one" of today is the one which is performed by the Holy Spirit and not performed by men:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​