ECT 1 Corinthians 15:25/2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV

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Danoh

New member
elohiym said:
In Greek there is no capitalization. I understand your point about the article but it can be said that way and mean God Almighty. It's hard for me to believe that Paul wasn't alluding to John 12:40 and would refer to the devil as the "god" of this world. To believe that would be to necessarily accept that God and Satan are both blinding people at the same time. Not a tidy explanation. See the law of parsimony on this one, brother.

Would it be a big deal if I'm correct? What's at stake for you? I'm just curious.
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What's at stake is what you would assert about God.

Further the article in the original together with what the passage agrees with John as to who is behind the darkness that is this present evil age is what allows for the lower case g as the understanding.

Believe me, I'm not into "agree with me or hit the highway." I don't need to be right. Its a sure way to end up, and stay, off-base.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Danoh said:
What's at stake is what you would assert about God.
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If I assert that God is the "God of this world" and is blinding their eyes, am I asserting anything different than what the Lord asserts in John 12:40?

Danoh said:
Further the article in the original together with what the passage agrees with John as to who is behind the datkness that is this present evil age is what allows for the lower case g as the understanding.
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The problem is the idea that Paul would be contradicting the Lord who said God Almighty was blinding their eyes in John 12:40, which is an idea consistent with the prophets and the prayer of David. To accept the "god of this world" is Satan would be to think that God Almighty and Satan are both making people blind. But why would Satan be answering David's prayer if God is already doing it? Doesn't make sense, and Occam's Razor isn't disposable. :)

Danoh said:
Believe me, I'm not into "agree with me or hit the highway." I don't need to be right. Its a sure way to end up, and stay, off-base.
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You sound reasonable. :up:
 
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elohiym said:
What do you want to know about them?

"For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son..."

That exactly what I'm claiming!
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The "god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4 is the same as that referred to in Acts 26:18 as "Satan," and in John 12:31 as "the ruler of this world," who "will be cast out" and eventually "thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone...to be tormented day and night forever and ever," according to Rev 20:10.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Note "the god of this world" not "God." There is an article, and a lower case g.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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Yes, but Elo wants us to believe that the Lord God blinds unbelievers to the light of the Gospel of Christ. God forbid.

Men are always blinded by their own conceits....fed to them by the god of this world. The lusts of the flesh, eyes, and pride of life. The Jews took pride in their own efforts to obey the Law.

2 Cor. 3:15-16
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.​

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​
 
elohiym

elohiym

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User Name said:
The "god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4 is the same as that referred to in Acts 26:18 as "Satan," and in John 12:31 as "the ruler of this world," who "will be cast out" and eventually "thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone...to be tormented day and night forever and ever," according to Rev 20:10.
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The God of this word in 1 Corinthians 4:4 has to be God Almighty because of what the Lord claimed in John 12:40. Who is blinding people? God or Satan? I don't want to keep going around in circles on this point. We can agree to disagree.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
Yes, but Elo wants us to believe that the Lord God blinds unbelievers to the light of the Gospel of Christ. God forbid.
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The Lord said that God Almighty is blinding their eyes.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

John 12:39
For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere...

Isaiah 6:10 "He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving. Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Psalm 69:23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

You say "God forbid" all that, Glorydaz?
 
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elohiym said:
The God of this word in 1 Corinthians 4:4 has to be God Almighty because of what the Lord claimed in John 12:40. Who is blinding people? God or Satan?
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John 12:40 -- "He has blinded...I should heal them." Not the same.
 
elohiym

elohiym

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User Name said:
John 12:40 -- "He has blinded...I should heal them." Not the same.
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The Lord said that God Almighty is blinding their eyes.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

John 12:39
For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere...

Isaiah 6:10 "He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving. Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Psalm 69:23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.
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Why ignore all that?
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
elohiym said:
In Greek there is no capitalization. I understand your point about the article but it can be said that way and mean God Almighty. It's hard for me to believe that Paul wasn't alluding to John 12:40 and would refer to the devil as the "god" of this world. To believe that would be to necessarily accept that God and Satan are both blinding people at the same time. Not a tidy explanation. See the law of parsimony on this one, brother.

Would it be a big deal if I'm correct? What's at stake for you? I'm just curious.
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That particular text in John is referring to Israel's refusal to accept the Lord as the Messiah. He performed miracles and they refused to believe. John 12:37 So then He spoke in parables so they would remain blind as His time had nearly come to go to the cross.

None were ever blinded by the Lord God to the light of the glorious Gospel...they were blinded by their own conceit. They trusted in the Law and their own righteousness.

God only hardens already hard hearts....like he did with pharaoh in Egypt. Some try to claim that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, but they aren't reading carefully enough, and they don't know God well enough, IMO.

Exodus 8:32
And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.​
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
elohiym said:
The God of this word in 1 Corinthians 4:4 has to be God Almighty because of what the Lord claimed in John 12:40. Who is blinding people? God or Satan? I don't want to keep going around in circles on this point. We can agree to disagree.
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You need to admit you're wrong.

Satan blinds people to the light. He doesn't want them to be saved by the Gospel.
 
elohiym

elohiym

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User Name said:
"He" vs. "I". Not the same.

Who is the "he" that has blinded their eyes? Who is the "I" that would heal them? Not the same.
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The Father is clearly the "He" because the Lord is quoting the prophets who were speaking of God Almighty. The "I" is the Son of God who is God. The Son was sent to heal, but the Father blinded the eyes of the wicked in answer to David's prayer. Let's not keep going in circles.
 
elohiym

elohiym

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glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
elohiym said:
I'm not wrong. See the scriptures I've already cited and the arguments I've already made.



John 12:40 is about God Almighty blinding people to the light.



That's why God blinds the eyes of the devil's children in answer to the prayer of David I cited.
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:shocked:

I'll say one thing for you Elo. When you get set on making a fool of yourself, you go all the way. Did you read Isaiah 6 and Isaiah 53? Did you read the verses I showed you? Of course you didn't. You simply won't listen, because you're BLINDED by your own CONCEITS. Don't blame those conceits on the Lord God....blame them on satan (the god of this world). He's the one who has told you that you can be as God. It's an old story and you fall for it. :nono:
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
:shocked:

I'll say one thing for you Elo. When you get set on making a fool of yourself, you go all the way. Did you read Isaiah 6 and Isaiah 53? Did you read the verses I showed you? Of course you didn't. You simply won't listen, because you're BLINDED by your own CONCEITS. Don't blame those conceits on the Lord God....blame them on satan (the god of this world). He's the one who has told you that you can be as God. It's an old story and you fall for it. :nono:
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Whatever, lady. My arguments are posted.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
elohiym said:
Whatever, lady. My arguments are posted.
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David's prayer speaks of those who shut their eyes against the light, loving darkness rather than the light....that they be given up to the pride that had hardened their hearts. God didn't harden the hearts of the Jews....they did that themselves. Those who are proud and self-willed exclude themselves from the light. God never excludes men from coming. When Jesus spoke of the Jews He said, How often would I have gathered you...like a mother hen under my wings, and YE WOULD NOT. He didn't say you could not because I had blinded you. Put off your stubbornness for once in your life and use the brain God gave you. Your problem on this is because you have to stick by your statement that Jesus is ruling right now....so you decide He is blinding people from seeing the light. That's wrong. Even evil to suggest such a thing.
 
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Danoh

New member
elohiym said:
Whatever, lady. My arguments are posted.
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Not so fast, elohiym; you are speaking a blasphemy against the Spirit's Own Words.

This is serious.

Do yourself a favor and read all the following in their entirety - Leviticus 26; Deuteronomy 11; 2 Chronicles 7; Psalm 69; Isaiah, chapters 1 thru 6, and Matthew 13.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Not so fast, elohiym; you are speaking a blasphemy against the Spirit's Own Words.

This is serious.
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How am I speaking a blasphemy against the Spirit's Own Words?

Your accusation is serious, and worse for you if you are mistaken.
 
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