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Three traditional laws: identity, non-contradiction, excluded middle Law of identity: Atheism is naturalism. Atheism is irrational because particles are both mindless and mind. A thing cannot be both what it is and something else or it's antithesis. --Dave

If any argument presents a clear and obvious contradiction that argument is irrational. In the heliocentric model the earth is spinning at the surface about 1,000 mph at the equator and about 700 mph across America. Jets move above us at about 500 to 700 mph. We move freely in any direction on...

Since I did not originate "flat earth" or "We never went to the moon", arguing on behalf, e.i. repeating the arguments, of those who did was the whole point of this thread. Funny how you and so many others have missed the main point. --Dave

Since “flat earth” is not my original idea, repeating what they were saying was the point of this tread. Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Washington Square Park I haven't gone fishing, I've been studying and preparing to do more evangelism. This week end I was arguing with a very bright young man who is starting his career in neuroscience. I was making the case for the existence of the soul since he was studying how chemical...

Lucky for you you're not stubborn. --Dave

It does not matter where the box is located. It still is the immovable point from which and on which the ants are moving and everything I've already said applies. --Dave

My disagreement with much of science does not mean I'm ignorant of science. There is something anti-logical and anti-Biblical about relativism in physics and not only to me, and, although I wouldn't say this spooks me, but it is the reason for my skepticism. There's no such thing as "physical...

But the box ain't moving, so there's our immovable fixed earth idea again. You can't get an ant speed without that an immovable box. Nice try though. --Dave

But there can be only one reality. Right? I don't know how we can be going both 60 mph and 120 mph at the same time in the same reality. Saying in one relationship we are actually going 60 but in another relationship we are also actually going 120 mph at the same time just does not make sense...

I wouldn't say ignorant either, but just how much one knows is not always obvious to someone else. Some of us don't like to reveal all of our cards. But despite how much one knows here and now there is still an eternity of things to learn. If you've been reading the latest posts you know I'm...

Yes we pick two points and pretend that they don't move in contradiction to "everything is moving." Eventually i hope you'll see that if "everything is moving" then "points" move to. Lets start with the speed of sound. I've seen and posted jets flying at the speed of sound". Here's one...

We are saying that two cars "that are both going 60 mph in opposite directions and begin at the same point" are 120 miles apart in one hour. This means they are moving not in relation to each other but in relation to the same specifications and in relation to the same reality. That reality being...

That's because the earth is not moving and the cars are. So how do we determine how fast radar and sonar travels? --Dave

We were talking about how we determine speed on the surface of the earth but if you want to go to sonar and radar make a point. --Dave

The 120 mph is relative to the 120 miles to get from point B1 to point B2 and that is established by distance and time relative to the earth that is not moving not by another car that is. I'm glad you're not driving a car telling me when your going to arrive based on the speed of the cars going...

"You have a reference point that, relative to itself, is not moving." A reference point by definition is what is not moving relative to what is moving. Your definition is mere tautology, saying something twice by definition then by explanation as if the two were different things and not just...

A = beginning point for both cars. B1 = end point for car going west = 60 miles B2 = end point for car going east = 60 miles B1<----------A---------->B2 120 miles is the distance between point B1 and B2 It will take both cars one hour at 60 mph to get back to point A...

I hope you understand that having studied theology and philosophy where logical propositions based on following the rules of logic vs irrational propositions based on fallacies helps us to know what is or is not true about the existence of God, morals, and meaning. I've not been a student of...

In the specific example we are dealing with we do need a fixed point to determine speed and distance. The immovable earth is our fixed point from which we determine what is and is not moving over or on it. The north star also acts as a fixed point of reference for navigation because it's the...