You forgot to tell him that you didn't have time to read everything he said because he's an idiot.
The Plain Reading of Scripture
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
You forgot to tell him that you didn't have time to read everything he said because he's an idiot.
Derf
Well-known member
That was a different post, and I don't think that. He just acts like a child sometimes.
Idolater
Popetard
I don't think that either. He could be a powerful influencer and persuader, he has great talent.
Derf
Well-known member
I agree, as long as he doesn't take his ball and go home when someone doesn't
immediately succumb to his logical prowess.
Right Divider
Body part
Spoken like a true moron.
Patrick Hannon
New member
A secret yes. the next verse in Romans 16: 26. The gospel. It was not known before Paul.
Right Divider
Body part
There were gospels known before Paul.
Patrick Hannon
New member
Abrahams gospel. Galatians 3:8. The gospel of the kingdom. Matthew 4:23. The everlasting gospel. Revelation 14:6.
Derf
Well-known member
Not to mention the gospel the angels brought to the shepherds in Luke 2:10.
Derf
Well-known member
AAl
Also the gospel of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of peace, the gospel of the grace of God, the gospel of His (God's) Son.
Patrick Hannon
New member
Which gospel have you believed to be saved?
Derf
Well-known member
Hi Patrick, if you have a question for a particular person, either use the reply button under his post or use the @ sign followed by his user name. That way we know who your question is for.
Assuming this is for me, I see the different gospels as integrated. For instance, the one given to Abraham was mentioned by Paul, so it is an early rendition of Paul's gospel. The others I mentioned terms most recently were terms used by Paul, so they are also "Paul's gospel". The angel's gospel was that Jesus had been born and men would benefit. That's a piece of Paul's gospel. That leaves the kingdom gospel as the only one not mentioned by Paul...but he was preaching the kingdom while a prisoner at Rome at the end of the book of Acts. Therefore they are all the same gospel, because no other gospel has salvific power.
Patrick Hannon
New member
I don't see the gospels as integrated. Yet you use the word "different". They are not the same. For instance Abraham's gospel is;
Gal_3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
You say Abraham's gospel is an "early rendition of Paul's gospel. Please compare them both.
Abraham's gospel; In thee shall all nations be blessed".
Paul's gospel;
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Do you think they look alike ?
They are different. Paul's gospel was distinct, not known before by men.
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
We are not those people whom Paul was writing about. We are Gentiles and Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles.
For you to be saved as a Gentile you need to believe the gospel given to Paul by Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
This is what I have believed, the gospel given to Paul by Christ. If you add, subtract from it, then you have believed in vain as Paul writes.
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
This is not my opinion, It is what God has written through our apostle Paul.
1Co_14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Gal_3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
You say Abraham's gospel is an "early rendition of Paul's gospel. Please compare them both.
Abraham's gospel; In thee shall all nations be blessed".
Paul's gospel;
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Do you think they look alike ?
They are different. Paul's gospel was distinct, not known before by men.
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
We are not those people whom Paul was writing about. We are Gentiles and Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles.
For you to be saved as a Gentile you need to believe the gospel given to Paul by Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
This is what I have believed, the gospel given to Paul by Christ. If you add, subtract from it, then you have believed in vain as Paul writes.
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
This is not my opinion, It is what God has written through our apostle Paul.
1Co_14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Romans 2:16b ...God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my (Paul's) gospel.
Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,
Patrick Hannon
New member
You need to believe Paul's gospel to be saved.
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The following is just me reacting off the top of my head to your quite bare statement. It should not be understood to be me accusing you of anything. Indeed, I'd be surprised to discover that you disagree with a syllable of what follows...
I entirely agree with this in principle and as stated it is quite correct, but we should be careful not to imply that a person must understand dispensational distinctions in order to be saved. He does not.
To be saved, a man must first believe that there is a God, and not merely some vague Power behind the universe, but the God who made it: the living Creator, holy, perfect, and just. He must also understand that he himself is not merely an imperfect creature in need of improvement, but a rebel. He has done evil against the One from whom he received his life, and therefore stands in need not simply of instruction or reform, but of rescue.
The Christian claim is that God Himself provided that rescue. Unwilling that men should perish, He entered His own creation as the man Jesus Christ. He who had no guilt of His own took upon Himself the guilt of others and died on their behalf. He then rose again from the dead.
That is the thing to be believed and the Person to be trusted. The sinner must acknowledge that he needs a Savior, confess Jesus Christ as that Savior, and believe that God raised Him from the dead. He is not being asked merely to admire Christ, nor merely to agree that Christianity contains many true things. He is being asked to entrust himself to the One whom God has provided for his salvation. And the promise attached to that faith is that he will be saved.
Now, that does indeed happen to be Paul's gospel. Large portions of what I have just described would scarcely be Christian doctrine at all apart from Paul's writings. So, in that sense, you are quite correct: it is Paul's gospel that must be believed.
But that is a very different thing from saying that a person must understand Paul's ministry dispensationally in order to be saved.
Millions upon millions of Christians throughout the world believe what I have just described while seeing no meaningful distinction at all between Paul's ministry and Peter's. Some believe the Church began at Pentecost, some at the Cross, some in Acts 9, and still others in Acts 28. Some understand grace remarkably well and go through life motivated chiefly by the love of God. Others, probably most, are up to their necks in legalism and are motivated far more by fear of judgment than by grace. There are, in short, hundreds of varieties of Christianity and an almost endless variety of Christians.
My point is simply this: a man may be wrong about a great many things and still be right about the thing upon which his salvation depends. If he understands who God is, understands his own guilt and need of salvation, and trusts in the crucified and risen Christ as the Savior God has provided, then he will be saved, even if much of the rest of his theology is held together with baling wire and duct tape.
This is how I see it. There is context, but dead to sin means what he says. In context. That applies to those that say you can sin your way out of salvation.
I agree. Acts 16 doesn't specify what he means, but we know what he means on the entire body of work. Including word for word to the Corinthians.
I presume you're referring to Romans 6:11...
Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Saying it means what he (Paul) says, is easy, but if you ask ten Christians what it means, you'll probably get ten different answers. That word "reckon" throws people for a loop for some reason.
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