ttruscott
Well-known member
For the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23. Death is a consequence of sin, not a consequence of human life or situation. This equals: death proves sinfulness...
Hints in Genesis Adam and Eve were sinful before they ate...
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VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
Notice that "For the wages of sin is death" does not mean All who die, die from the guilt of sin.
Derf
Well-known member
But it doesn't say whose sin, and it doesn't say the wages of guilt is death. Adam started something--not sin, but death:
Romans 5:12-14 KJV — Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so DEATH passed upon all men, (not sin) for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
I'm not saying all don't sin, but that it was death that passed from Adam to all humans. So death is a consequence of Adam's sin, according to Paul. And I think it is because of death that people sin, generally. And the sting of death is sin (which seems to indicate that sin comes from death, and not death from sin).
ttruscott
Well-known member
Agreed!!!
ttruscott
Well-known member
Hmmmm...thinking, thinking...
Ummm, do angels die? Do angels sin?
If they do not die, is it because they don't sin
or
do they not sin because they don't die?
Idolater
Popetard
Demons are angels and they sin. What is their fate, what does the Bible tell us about the ultimate fate of demons?
ttruscott
Well-known member
Do you think angels are still turning against GOd since the creation of the physical universe?
Here are some thoughts about the definition of sin ... It is a noun and a verb which makes sin a thing or a state as well as it bein something performed.
Therefore we can transgress against a divine law by rebelling and doing wrong behaviors, but there also the nuance of our being in a state and a condition of sin.
I found this definition in my good ole Webster's dictionary regarding sin - sin as a noun: an offense, a misdemeanor. a fault.
Fault as a noun: something that has mars in its appearance, character, structure, as a flaw, an imperfection, a defect. Webster's
At times I've heard it said that sin means - missing or falling short of the mark set for something . When the LORD formed and manifested mankind as a finished soul all was good. But when mankind rebelled they committed a sin against a divine being ... a second thing happened.
God cursed the 'ground' [the elements of the world from which God formed man's body]; therefore, the body of mankind became flawed with a physical imperfection - a defect and missed the intended mark. We need salvation for two reasons. One spiritual the other physical.
All people are born in these states of sin - the introduction of good and evil and the curse upon us physically. It is said that our bodies are like a conduit for temptation to commit sins. Woman even saw with her eyes the fruit looked good and the desires of her heart was to become like the gods.
Now, regarding your interesting idea about whether mankind sinned while in that spiritual state/essence of Gen. 1 or not, all I can figure is that they did not, because I've come to believe they needed to be physical [a complete soul] to commit a sin and fall short of the mark God had intended for the two of them.
To me: Gen. 1 and 2 are two different stages of creation. God the Spirit worked in his day and the LORD God did his generations of work in his 7th Day ... and of course we know that God the Christ / Lord Jesus did his work in his day.
John 5:17 KJV ... [my thoughts in red] My Father [LORD GOD] worketh hitherto [meaning up to that day and time], and [now] I [the Lord Jesus] work. I'm sure we all understand that the Father and the WORD come as The Son are one ... God as Spirit and as Lord.
In Genesis 1 God the Spirit is creating by his WORD and establishing laws and rules, delegating functions and purposes and I believe also creating physical heavenly bodies. One of mankind's first functions were to be full of fruit and multiply. Funny how we see through scientific discovery that in scripture the process is explained exactly the way it works. The female eggs and male sperm [fruit] fuse at conception and become ONE - cell ... then that ONE begins to divide through mitosis to become another baby, girl or boy, so that some day the son will leave his mother and father to cleave to his female/wife and they become ONE.... and so forth.
In Genesis 2 God the Spirit will still work ... BUT a significant change happened. A name change from Elohiym to LORD God denotes something important. Gen. 2:4 says this: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. Gen. 2 begins to speak only of earthly matters of creation. I see it this way: God, appearing with his image [mentioned in Gen. 1:26-27], begins to manifest the things which had already been established from out of spiritual existence into a three dimensional visible world. The LORD called forth plants and animals which had not been present and as he did he brought them to Adam to name. Yes, they existed already in God's spiritual plan because God the Spiritual WORD had established them ... but they were just not yet manifested in the realm where they were to dwell.
Now, a question for you regarding your interesting theory about male/female sinning while as a spirit. How do you think male and female did that as spirits? Without a corporeal body?
I apologize if I've missed your explanation in previous posts.