Question About Open Theism

Nolan

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Does God’s foreknowledge of the future cause it to be fixed?

For example, if God already knows what a person will do in the future, how can they make a decision other than what God knows will happen?

And if they are able to make a decision other than what God knows, wouldn’t that falsify God’s knowledge of the future events?
 

JudgeRightly

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Does God’s foreknowledge of the future cause it to be fixed?

For example, if God already knows what a person will do in the future, how can they make a decision other than what God knows will happen?

And if they are able to make a decision other than what God knows, wouldn’t that falsify God’s knowledge of the future events?

Causal to be fixed? Not necessarily.

But it does preclude alternatives. So in a sense, yes?

Recommend reading this:
 

JudgeRightly

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And yes, if someone was able to choose other than what God foreknew, then His knowledge could not, by definition, be infallible.
 

Nolan

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Him knowing what he will do does not change your ability to chose. And I think that is what you are really asking.

Yes sir, that is basically what I’m trying to figure out.

If God knows that someone will turn left but they choose to turn right, does that invalidate God’s foreknowledge? Or can that person not do anything other than turn left?
 

JudgeRightly

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Yes sir, that is basically what I’m trying to figure out.

If God knows that someone will turn left but they choose to turn right, does that invalidate God’s foreknowledge? Or can that person not do anything other than turn left?

It invalidates the concept of infallible foreknowledge, yes.

Or as some like to call it, Exhaustive Divine Foreknowledge (EDF).

But the Bible shows many times where God thought men would do one thing, and they ended up doing another.
 

Nolan

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But the Bible shows many times where God thought men would do one thing, and they ended up doing another.

Thank you sir for your response.

Is it possible that there are times when God chooses not to know that something until after it happens?
 

JudgeRightly

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Thank you sir for your response.

Is it possible that there are times when God chooses not to know that something until after it happens?

I suppose so. Often, God turns away from Israel due to their wickedness.
 

Nolan

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2 Kings 17.

Is this what you’re referring to?

Verses 18-20 (RSV)

Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight; none was left but the tribe of Judah only. Judah also did not keep the commandments of the Lord their God, but walked in the customs which Israel had introduced. And the Lord rejected all the descendants of Israel, and afflicted them, and gave them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.
 

Nick M

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Can you give me an example please?
Read Romans 11. Here is a sample.

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; in as much as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Prophecy is conditional. The 70th week of Daniel and the restoration did not happen. The future is open and our creator is free.
 

Nick M

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Some would say that it hasn’t happened yet.
I am one of them.

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
 

Clete

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Does God’s foreknowledge of the future cause it to be fixed?

For example, if God already knows what a person will do in the future, how can they make a decision other than what God knows will happen?

And if they are able to make a decision other than what God knows, wouldn’t that falsify God’s knowledge of the future events?
If you mean foreknowledge in the sense of infallible foreknowledge then the answer is yes, it does mean that the future is fixed. Whether the foreknowledge is the cause of it being fixed is another question, but if God infallibly knows what you will do tomorrow then when you do it, you do not do so freely because in order to choose there must be alternatives and if God's foreknowledge is infallible then you action is logically necessary.

Here's the logical proof...

T = You answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am
  1. Yesterday God infallibly believed T. [Supposition of infallible foreknowledge]
  2. If E occurred in the past, it is now-necessary that E occurred then. [Principle of the Necessity of the Past]
  3. It is now-necessary that yesterday God believed T. [1, 2]
  4. Necessarily, if yesterday God believed T, then T. [Definition of “infallibility”]
  5. If p is now-necessary, and necessarily (p → q), then q is now-necessary. [Transfer of Necessity Principle]
  6. So it is now-necessary that T. [3,4,5]
  7. If it is now-necessary that T, then you cannot do otherwise than answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am. [Definition of “necessary”]
  8. Therefore, you cannot do otherwise than answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am. [6, 7]
  9. If you cannot do otherwise when you do an act, you do not act freely. [Principle of Alternate Possibilities]
  10. Therefore, when you answer the telephone tomorrow at 9 am, you will not do it freely. [8, 9]
Source

So, it really comes down to what we mean when we talk about foreknowledge. When we say that Jesus knew that Peter would deny Him three times, do we mean that Jesus just expected it with high confidence or do we mean it in a more absolute way? Is it more like a well-informed prediction or is it absolutely firm, infallible knowledge. The former allows for free will, the later does not.

There is one other issue here that has to do with the consequences of past actions. It could be that there are situations that, because of one's past freely chosen actions, a person could find themselves in a situation where they are quite trapped and have no alternative but to act in a particular manner. In such cases, God could certainly have infallible foreknowledge of what the person will do without there being any issue concerning free will because it is the person's own past actions that have steered him into a situation where he has no alternatives.
 
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Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Does God’s foreknowledge of the future cause it to be fixed?

For example, if God already knows what a person will do in the future, how can they make a decision other than what God knows will happen?

God's control of the future causes His foreknowledge, so it's really a distraction to ask the question whether his foreknowledge settles the future. The future is settled because He settled it, His foreknowledge is the rather trivial coincidence that He also happens to KNOW what the future is. So you've got the horse in front of the cart.

And if they are able to make a decision other than what God knows, wouldn’t that falsify God’s knowledge of the future events?

He knows you and everybody to the core. If He decides to arrange your situations in a certain way, knowing precisely who you are—like he knew Peter and that Peter wasn't going to volunteer himself for 'red' martyrdom—not yet anyway (in John 21:18-19 He says Peter WILL volunteer for 'red' martyrdom IN THE FUTURE)—then He can control you.

Thing is He can also control your wants. Peter didn't want to become a 'red' martyr yet in c. AD 33, but by c. AD 66, he was ready to. And he did.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Read Romans 11. Here is a sample.

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; in as much as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Prophecy is conditional. The 70th week of Daniel and the restoration did not happen. The future is open and our creator is free.

The 70th week is interesting, if you associate a week with a year. It was literally AD 70 when the temple was laid waste and it's been ground to powder ever since, never heard from, never seen again.
 
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