Is there any obvious evidence today for the biblical global Flood?

[JudgeRightly]

Can you elaborate on this? Why can't there be things that exist but aren't mentioned in the Bible?

One of the assertions of the HPT is that there is nothing miraculous about the flood or creation, other than what is stated explicitly or is obviously a miracle, in scripture. For example, God creating things is clearly a miracle, but the animals boarding the ark, while they would be under God's influence, didn't magically/miraculously appear on the ark, they boarded it with the help of Noah and his family.

A canopy of water above the atmosphere would have to be miraculously put there and sustained there, because there's no physical way for a sphere of water to remain above the atmosphere without it falling to the earth, not to mention that it would instantly, simultaneously freeze and boil, and so would have required God to miraculously keep it a liquid for it to become rain.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I believe the waters above the firmament were waters that were above ground in the sky.

You're welcome to believe what you like, but the "waters above the firmament" became Seas, if you follow what is said closely.

I don't think mere human minds, no matter how brilliant or well educated, can easily grasp that concept.

Because it's illogical. That's why.

 

[Derf]

One of the assertions of the HPT is that there is nothing miraculous about the flood or creation, other than what is stated explicitly or is obviously a miracle, in scripture. For example, God creating things is clearly a miracle, but the animals boarding the ark, while they would be under God's influence, didn't magically/miraculously appear on the ark, they boarded it with the help of Noah and his family.

A canopy of water above the atmosphere would have to be miraculously put there and sustained there, because there's no physical way for a sphere of water to remain above the atmosphere without it falling to the earth, not to mention that it would instantly, simultaneously freeze and boil, and so would have required God to miraculously keep it a liquid for it to become rain.

Ok, that makes sense. I'm not too big on the canopy, mainly because the water is above the firmament, which I would associate with space, rather than the sky.

 

[Derf]

I don't think it matters about the singular and plural use since "Heaven" in verse 8 is used like a proper name for the whole expanse (heavens).
Akin to referring to all lands as "Land", or all of man (mankind) as "Man".

But I'm open to other options.

That's fine. I've just seen some make a big deal of the plural vs singular forms in the translations, where the different forms aren't really there.

 

[marke]

HPT explains this very easily. It was not "a super fast rush of extremely cold wind", it was extremely cold hail.

I don't think cold hail could have frozen the mammoth fast enough to stop him mid-bite munching on tropical fauna and preserve his insides from decay so quickly.

 

[marke]

One of the assertions of the HPT is that there is nothing miraculous about the flood or creation, other than what is stated explicitly or is obviously a miracle, in scripture. For example, God creating things is clearly a miracle, but the animals boarding the ark, while they would be under God's influence, didn't magically/miraculously appear on the ark, they boarded it with the help of Noah and his family.

A canopy of water above the atmosphere would have to be miraculously put there and sustained there, because there's no physical way for a sphere of water to remain above the atmosphere without it falling to the earth, not to mention that it would instantly, simultaneously freeze and boil, and so would have required God to miraculously keep it a liquid for it to become rain.

Water in clouds is extremely heavy, yet the water remains suspended in clouds.

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How heavy are clouds?​

Posted onApril 9, 2022 BySupport
According to scientists, the weight of the average cumulus cloud is 1.1 million pounds! Think about that for a moment. This means that at any given moment, there are millions of pounds of water floating above your head.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ok, that makes sense. I'm not too big on the canopy, mainly because the water is above the firmament, which I would associate with space, rather than the sky.

Which doesn't make any sense anyways according to the text, which says that the waters above the firmament became Seas, the firmament of day 2 being something different than the "firmament of the heavens" of day 4.

I don't think cold hail could have frozen the mammoth

Your argument from incredulity is a fallacy.

fast enough to stop him mid-bite munching on tropical fauna and preserve his insides from decay so quickly.

Then you're not understanding just how cold the waters were that came from the fountains

Water in clouds is extremely heavy, yet the water remains suspended in clouds.

. . .

According to scientists, the weight of the average cumulus cloud is 1.1 million pounds! Think about that for a moment. This means that at any given moment, there are millions of pounds of water floating above your head.[/B]

So you're saying it was overcast all the time?

That doesn't sound like 1) a paradise where 2) there was no rain prior to the flood, nor does it fit 3) the fact that the "waters above the firmament" became the seas on the surface of the earth.

Your beliefs don't comport with scripture. You should reexamine them.

 

[Right Divider]

I don't think cold hail could have frozen the mammoth fast enough to stop him mid-bite munching on tropical fauna and preserve his insides from decay so quickly.

What you "think" is irrelevant.

Air is a terrible conductor of heat (and cold). It would take a lot more to suddenly freeze large animals.

Are you aware of the oxen found frozen in a river in Tibet? How could a "cold wind" freeze a river from the bottom to the top? Answer: It couldn't. Think "super cold hail".

 

[Right Divider]

Water in clouds is extremely heavy, yet the water remains suspended in clouds.

Not enough to produce 40 days of heavy rain.

 

[marke]

Which doesn't make any sense anyways according to the text, which says that the waters above the firmament became Seas, the firmament of day 2 being something different than the "firmament of the heavens" of day 4.



Your argument from incredulity is a fallacy.



Then you're not understanding just how cold the waters were that came from the fountains



So you're saying it was overcast all the time?

That doesn't sound like 1) a paradise where 2) there was no rain prior to the flood, nor does it fit 3) the fact that the "waters above the firmament" became the seas on the surface of the earth.

Your beliefs don't comport with scripture. You should reexamine them.

I believe the waters above the firmament were waters above ground. I'm sorry if you do not agree.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I believe the waters above the firmament were waters above ground. I'm sorry if you do not agree.

What you believe doesn't matter. Scripture says that the waters above the firmament became "Seas."

You're disagreeing with scripture at this point.

 

[Right Divider]

I believe the waters above the firmament were waters above ground. I'm sorry if you do not agree.

Above ground, yes. Above the sky... NO.

 

[Idolater]

I don't think cold hail could have frozen the mammoth fast enough to stop him mid-bite munching on tropical fauna and preserve his insides from decay so quickly.

Actually that's perfectly reasonable I think. What better way to freeze something quickly than to immediately pack it in an endless supply of ice?

 

[Right Divider]

Actually that's perfectly reasonable I think. What better way to freeze something quickly than to immediately pack it in an endless supply of ice?

The super cold hail would be more like dry ice. Much colder than ice.

 

[Idolater]

The super cold hail would be more like dry ice. Much colder than ice.

Even if it was just normal hail though, it would still do the trick. All we would need is some sort of cataclysmic weather event, can't think what that might be!

 

[Right Divider]

Even if it was just normal hail though, it would still do the trick.

No, it would not. To freeze the mammoth quickly enough to preserve the undigested food in its stomach requires a much colder temperature than normal ice.

Page 276

At normal body temperatures, stomach acids and enzymes
break down vegetable material within an hour. What
inhibited this process? The only plausible explanation is
for the stomach to cool to about 40°F in ten hours or
less.76 But because the stomach is protected inside a warm
body (96.6°F for elephants), how cold must the outside
air become to drop the stomach’s temperature to 40°F?
Experiments have shown that the outer layers of skin
would have had to drop suddenly to at least -175°F! 77
Independently, Sanderson concluded, “The flesh of many
of the animals found in the muck must have been very
rapidly and deeply frozen, for its cells had not burst. …
Frozen-food experts have pointed out that to do this,
starting with a healthy, live specimen, you would have to
suddenly drop the temperature of the surrounding air to
well below minus 150 degrees Fahrenheit.”78

 

[marke]

Not enough to produce 40 days of heavy rain.

Good question. If there was not a huge amount of water in the heavens before the flood then where did all that rain come from?

 

[marke]

Above ground, yes. Above the sky... NO.

40 days of rainwater fell from the sky.

 

[Right Divider]

Good question. If there was not a huge amount of water in the heavens before the flood then where did all that rain come from?

The bursting of the fountains of the deep... just like the Bible says.

 

[Right Divider]

40 days of rainwater fell from the sky.

Not from above the sky.