ECT You can tell Lk 1-2 are not theocratic because of 2:34+

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
None of the terms about Israel are Davidic-theocratic hints about to happen. You can tell this from what is said about how many in the SAME Israel are going to fall and perish.

There is still the kingdom, consolation, redemption for Jerusalem for those who are Christian believers, because all truth is now about and through Christ. But not about and through Israel.

It is going to fulfill the promise to Abraham (ch 1:73) and is all about forgiveness of sins and grace, and that kind of light to the nations.

This is not a gotcha chapter for 2P2P but its undoing.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
You can tell Lk 1-2 are not theocratic because of 2:34+
Click to expand...

We can tell that these words are indeed speaking of a Theocratic Kingdom:

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Lk.1:31-33).​

The throne of David is an earthly throne:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

Solomon sat upon the throne of David on the earth and his kingdom which was established was one which was earthly.

Therefore, the Lord Jesus will sit upon the throne of David when He returns to the earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

And as King the Lord Jesus will execute judgment and justice in the earth:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

You have the strangest ideas since you do not think these things refer to a Theocratic Kingdom!
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
None of the terms about Israel are Davidic-theocratic hints about to happen. You can tell this from what is said about how many in the SAME Israel are going to fall and perish.

There is still the kingdom, consolation, redemption for Jerusalem for those who are Christian believers, because all truth is now about and through Christ. But now about and through Israel.

It is going to fulfill the promise to Abraham (ch 1:73) and is all about forgiveness of sins and grace, and that kind of light to the nations.

This is not a gotcha chapter for 2P2P but its undoing.
Click to expand...

:chuckle:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
My mistake: there is a very important edit contrasting Christ and Israel. It should end "But NOT about or through Israel."
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
We can tell that these words are indeed speaking of a Theocratic Kingdom:

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Lk.1:31-33).​

The throne of David is an earthly throne:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

Solomon sat upon the throne of David on the earth and his kingdom which was established was one which was earthly.

Therefore, the Lord Jesus will sit upon the throne of David when He returns to the earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

And as King the Lord Jesus will execute judgment and justice in the earth:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

You have the strangest ideas since you do not think these things refer to a Theocratic Kingdom!
Click to expand...



Because of Hebrews, Colossians and Galatians, we know that all those things were only shadows of a Reality that was coming. One of the first things that Real Person said was 'tear down this temple and I will rebuild it in 3 days.' Get it?

The only "earth" that these prophecies apply to is the NHNE. They do not apply to a tenuous, intermittent stage at the end of human history as we know that are Judaistic and Davidic. We know this because of the clincher question of Christ, when Judaism was seeking the same thing: 'how can he be his son?'

There is nothing about Mt25:31 that puts that on this earth. That is your baggage. Deal with it. He already told them earlier that they could ask for the right and left seats, but he could not give because they would have be martyred to recieve them. Get it? It is not to be read with Pharisee literalism like you do.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
steko said:
:chuckle:
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Could you at least be specific?

Luke, the book that has these chs 1-2 and these songs, is also the one in ch 9 that says he was talking about and going to 'accomplish his exodus.' He meant the death and resurrection. But hey, what do you suppose that meant to the average follower of Judaism around him? So, in the same way, nothing in 1-2 is what Judaism thought it was going to be. He was going to 'rescue' Jerusalem, but he meant those who were believers, not the carnal Judiazers who had become zealots training to fight Rome.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Get back to me after reading ISRAEL IN REVOLUTION 6-72 CE by Rhoads. It was a standard history for a while, definitely not Sunday School flannelgraph material.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
:chuckle:

No thanks, Lamont.
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Why? The first thing he does is cover the background of Simon the Galilean during the census (Acts 5:37) and what was going on. It's just one historical figure to know because it is also mentioned in Acts, but hey enjoy your ignorance about the entire background of the NT. There's no work involved, that's for sure.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
SaulToPaul said:
:chuckle:

No thanks, Lamont.
Click to expand...

Lamont? Oh yes, Lamont Cranston the name of the Shadow. He knew what evil lurks in the heart of men.

But hey, that was years ago. I'm surprised you remembered Lamont.

And, as his strength
Failed him at length,
He met a pilgrim shadow—
‘Shadow,’ said he,
‘Where can it be—
This land of Eldorado?’

‘Over the Mountains
Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,’
The shade replied,—
‘If you seek for Eldorado!’

Edgar Poe​
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
jamie said:
Lamont? Oh yes, Lamont Cranston the name of the Shadow. He knew what evil lurks in the heart of men.

But hey, that was years ago. I'm surprised you remembered Lamont.

And, as his strength
Failed him at length,
He met a pilgrim shadow—
‘Shadow,’ said he,
‘Where can it be—
This land of Eldorado?’

‘Over the Mountains
Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,’
The shade replied,—
‘If you seek for Eldorado!’

Edgar Poe​
Click to expand...

:chuckle:

I was thinking of Lamont Sanford.
 
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