Why Do We Believe Paul?

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marhig

marhig

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Lilstu said:
Do I assume you observe the Law?
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I believe that God gave us his laws to turn us from sin. But man changed the laws, adding on to suit himself. And over time they became corrupted. Jesus came and corrected this and fulfilled Gods laws, he lived them out perfectly showing us by example through his life.

Now, once we are born of God through faith by the spirit, God writes his laws upon our hearts and in our minds and he is teaching us what's right and wrong by his spirit every day.

Hebrews 10

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh

When we enter in through the blood of Christ, we enter into the holiest by a new and living way, which is living it out in our lives through Christ Jesus, by a way that he has consecrated for us through his flesh. Which is a way that he himself lived out in his flesh. And if we follow him, we will live by this way.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

You ask do I observe the law, yes I do. But not as the jews do, but through faith by Christ through the spirit. And by this new and living way, my heart is being cleansed by the washing of the word and the blood of Christ within every day. Teaching me, guiding me, rebuking me, and saving me from my sins daily. If I keep my faith and obey the living God.

My heart is being cleansed through Christ by the spirit. My heart is changed so much so, that I'm like a different person. None of this could I have done myself, it's only because God has blessed me and forgiven me a sinner, and he's given me a chance to know him through his son. But without Christ and Gods holy spirit within my heart, I'd still be dead in my sins. But through Christ and by the holy spirit I'm alive! Without them I'm nothing.

As I said, God created his laws to turn us from sin, and those who truly have the holy spirit do just that, they walk in the spirit, put their faith in God and they obey him, turn from sin and follow Jesus in a new and living way becoming a living sacrifice, as Jesus himself was.

I believe Paul to be a true apostle of God. I can hear the spirit of God in him, and as he said, he and those who truly follow Christ, don't come to to make the law of none effect through faith. No through faith, by Christ and through the holy spirit they establish the law.
 
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marhig

marhig

Well-known member
1 Corinthians 8:4 (New American Standard Bible)
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
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And Paul is right, he's saying that there is no such thing as idols in the world, meaning there no such thing as idols as they are all false and there is no other God but one and that's the living God.

In other words, idols are false gods and there is only one true God.
 
marhig

marhig

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=dodge;4835703]Hello marhig. I quoted that verse in response to this post: I never gave my opinion on the verse as I felt it was self explanatory.
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Hello :) I'm going to through your post and try and explain myself and why I believe as I do, I hope that's ok.

Here goes.

I agree that all who name the name of Jesus should follow Jesus' example and fight the good fight.
That does not mean that salvation is attained by obeying the law or through works.
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I agree, because we can't do the good works without God through Christ and the indwelling holy spirit. We are filthy flesh and our flesh is dust and lusts after the things of the flesh and world. God has to lift us out of the dust and breathe the breath of life into us, for us to know him and the truth. We are blind, deaf dumb and lame without God, like being lost in the depths the darkest sea, and the only way to God is through Christ, Because his way is the true way and the light of the world, the light that brings us out of that darkness.

The Apostle John taught:

For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves , it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast.

When they asked Jesus what works must we work to receive eternal life Jesus responded by saying this is the work of God that you believe on Him who God has sent. Notice Jesus answered the questions of works with a work i.e. believe in Him.
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That's true, but if we believe in him then won't we obey him and live the way he taught us to live? Not by the will of the flesh, but the will of God?


Notice though that Jesus' birth was different than ours. Mary was over shadowed by the Holy Spirit and Mary was with child. Jesus had no earthly father as His Father was God the Father.
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I agree

Adam and Eve who were created without sin by God, and they sinned and disobeyed God.

Jesus the only begotten Son of God and never sinned and became the perfect sacrifice to pay our sin debt.
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I believe that Jesus came as a perfect living sacrifice to bare witness to the truth and show us the true way. And if we truly follow him, we will become a living sacrifice also. Becoming a temple not made by hand of man but by the hand of the living God. And if we are a temple created by God, then his spirit will be within us and the life and love of Christ will be seen through us.

I am NOT making excuses for sin, but in our flesh Satan has direct access to our weaknesses, sadly.
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and don't I know it!

The Apostle John addressed this by saying:
If we say that we have not sinned , we make Him a liar,and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:10

Then he says if we confess our sin God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
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And this is the truth, but we are to also to truly repent of that sin and turn from doing it again. We can't just carry on wilfully sinning and thinking that God will be ok with that because we believe in Jesus!

Hebrews 10

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

And as the Apostle John said we have a provision when we sin and fail:

Then he says ,"if we confess our sin God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". 1 John 1:9
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I agree, but again, we can't take God for granted and he won't be mocked. We all sin, but we are to turn from wilful sin and obey God.

God's righteousness had to be appeased because God will not look on sin as scripture teaches.Jesus came as a payment for our sins so we could receive the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
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Again, I believe that Jesus came to bare witness to the truth as he said himself, and through him we received the ministry of reconciliation which brings us back to God, if we believe and have faith. The righteousness of God was in Jesus Christ. So once Christ is manifest on our hearts, by the spirit, then we have his righteousness within.

I do see the cross differently yes, but the way I believe I know is right, because I don't say that Jesus came as a sacrifice and that Jesus has died on a cross for me and I'm saved regardless of how I live before God.

I say that he came as a living sacrifice, he was holy and pure before the living God, and he sacrificed his whole life, he was without spot or blemish, and by doing this, God was in him reconciling the world unto himself though the fullness of the spirit, and Jesus brought us a new and living way, living it out for an example to us and bringing us the gospel to teach and show us how to live before God. Jesus was dead long before he went on the cross. He was dead to this flesh and this world and that's how he died to save us, and we are reconciled through that death(death to self) and we are saved by his life. This world had nothing in Jesus, and if we truly follow him, it will have nothing in us either and we won't be of this world, but we will be born anew in God.

He came as a sacrifice to pay for our sins as scripture says.
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Yes but as a living sacrifice, not a dead one

Rom 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;


Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
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He was delivered for our offences by coming into this sinful flesh to show us the way, the truth and the life. He even said that he was born and came into this world to bear witness to the truth. And we are justified once Christ is resurrected in our hearts. Where in the gospels does Jesus say that he came to die on the cross to save us?

Death doesn't save, life saves and God abhors human sacrifice.
 
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L

Lilstu

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marhig said:
And Paul is right, he's saying that there is no such thing as idols in the world, meaning there no such thing as idols as they are all false and there is no other God but one and that's the living God.

In other words, idols are false gods and there is only one true God.
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1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,

Do you believe in Demons or Devils? Do they exist?
 
L

Lilstu

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PAUL THE MURDERER

PAUL THE MURDERER

Outline of Paul’s murderous career.

Acts 7:58 (New American Standard Bible)
When they had driven him [Stephen] out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. [Paul]
This is proof that Paul was a co-conspirator in the murder of Stephen. He was guilty of Felony murder.

And it was definitely murder.
John 18:31 (New American Standard Bible)
31So Pilate said to them, "Take Him yourselves, and judge Him according to your law." The Jews said to him, "We are not permitted to put anyone to death,"

Paul and his associates did not have a legal right to put Stephen to death. It was murder.

Acts 8:1 (New American Standard Bible)

Saul [Paul] was in hearty agreement with putting him [Stephen] to death.

Acts 22:20 (New American Standard Bible)
20'And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was being shed, I also was standing by approving, and watching out for the coats of those who were slaying him.'



Paul went on to continue murdering and bragged about it.
Acts 22:4 (New American Standard Bible)
I persecuted this Way to the death

Acts 26:10 (New American Standard Bible)
"And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, but also when they were being put to death I cast my vote against them.


The Conversion of Paul
Acts 9:1-4 (New American Standard Bible)
1Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest,
2and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
4and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

What I find interesting is that Paul is “breathing threats and murder”, and he heads out to Damascus, unrepentant of his evil murders, and supposedly Jesus speaks to him.
Why would Jesus choose an unrepentant murderer to preach his gospel? Were there no righteous men available? Why would Jesus choose an unrepentant murderer to completely overhaul God’s message by abolishing the Law, abolishing the Sabbath, abolishing circumcision, and abolishing God’s Holy Festivals?

Do you just naïvely accept Paul’s testimony at face value without examining it to see if it is legitimate?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

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Lilstu said:
James said to “abstain from things sacrificed to idols “

Acts 15:28-29 (New American Standard Bible)
28"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

But Paul said….
Romans 14:14 (New American Standard Bible)
14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean

1 Corinthians 8:4 (New American Standard Bible)
4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.

1 Corinthians 10:25-27 (New American Standard Bible)
25Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake;
26FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
27If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.

Paul thought it was OK to eat food sacrificed to idols.
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God gave Paul revelation about a NEW thing....

2Cor 5:16-17 (KJV)​
(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. (5:17) Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. ​

You're just a confused troublemaker. Please find some other place to annoy people of your uninformed and silly comments.
 
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Lilstu

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Right Divider said:
God gave Paul revelation about a NEW thing....

2Cor 5:16-17 (KJV)​
(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. (5:17) Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. ​

You're just a confused troublemaker. Please find some other place to annoy people of your uninformed and silly comments.
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At the Jerusalem council [ Acts 15 ] the Apostles decided that it was not permissible to eat food sacrificed to idols. Paul was at that meeting. But then Paul proceeds to tell people the opposite of what the Apostles decided.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Lilstu said:
At the Jerusalem council [ Acts 15 ] the Apostles decided that it was not permissible to eat food sacrificed to idols. Paul was at that meeting. But then Paul proceeds to tell people the opposite of what the Apostles decided.
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There was a SPECIFIC group of people involved there, but you ignore that.

James had NO jurisdiction to impose rules upon everyone.

Why is James presiding over the church in Jerusalem in the first place? What happened to Peter's place as the spokesperson for the twelve?

Peter was a very prominent figure in the early chapters of Acts; why does he completely disappear from the book of Acts after chapter 15?

Why does Luke switch from accompanying Peter and the eleven and start accompanying Paul and his group in Acts 16?
 
L

Lilstu

New member
Right Divider said:
There was a SPECIFIC group of people involved there, but you ignore that.

James had NO jurisdiction to impose rules upon everyone.

Why is James presiding over the church in Jerusalem in the first place? What happened to Peter's place as the spokesperson for the twelve?

Peter was a very prominent figure in the early chapters of Acts; why does he completely disappear from the book of Acts after chapter 15?

Why does Luke switch from accompanying Peter and the eleven and start accompanying Paul and his group in Acts 16?
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Are you trying to argue that the Jerusalem council was not legitimate?
 
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