Why Calvinist, Catholics, Others, Never Talk About Being "In Christ"

[Robert Pate]

This is a very important doctrine, yet it is not mentioned in the "Canons of Dort" nor is it mentioned in the 33 "Canons of the Council of Trent". There is some mention of having faith in Christ. But there is no mention of being found "In Christ".

The "In Christ" doctrine was a big part of what Paul taught, "And be found "IN CHRIST", not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

The reason that Calvinist, Catholics and others do not teach the "In Christ" doctrine is because they don't believe in it. In the Calvinist doctrine they are not saved by being "In Christ" they are saved by being predestinated. Even though there is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. Catholics apparently do not believe that they need to be "In Christ" simply because they don't teach it. If they don't teach it, its because they don't believe it.

For the Christian the "In Christ" doctrine is everything. It is his only hope. In the judgment if one is not found to be "In Christ" he will perish. God only accepts the righteousness of Christ. This is why Paul said, "Not having my own righteousness, which is of the law". If you enter in to the judgment with your own righteousness, which is of the law, you will perish.

What does it mean to be "In Christ?"

It means that you have ceased from your own works (religion) and you are resting in the works and the person of Jesus Christ for your salvation. Paul wrote, "For he that has enter into his rest, he has also ceased from his own works" Hebrews 4:10. It means that you have stopped trying to be good enough and have come to the realization that Christ was good enough for you. If anyone will be saved in the judgment it will be because of the merits of Jesus Christ.

 

[patrick jane]

This is a very important doctrine, yet it is not mentioned in the "Canons of Dort" nor is it mentioned in the 33 "Canons of the Council of Trent". There is some mention of having faith in Christ. But there is no mention of being found "In Christ".

The "In Christ" doctrine was a big part of what Paul taught, "And be found "IN CHRIST", not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

The reason that Calvinist, Catholics and others do not teach the "In Christ" doctrine is because they don't believe in it. In the Calvinist doctrine they are not saved by being "In Christ" they are saved by being predestinated. Even though there is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. Catholics apparently do not believe that they need to be "In Christ" simply because they don't teach it. If they don't teach it, its because they don't believe it.

For the Christian the "In Christ" doctrine is everything. It is his only hope. In the judgment if one is not found to be "In Christ" he will perish. God only accepts the righteousness of Christ. This is why Paul said, "Not having my own righteousness, which is of the law". If you enter in to the judgment with your own righteousness, which is of the law, you will perish.

What does it mean to be "In Christ?"

It means that you have ceased from your own works (religion) and you are resting in the works and the person of Jesus Christ for your salvation. Paul wrote, "For he that has enter into his rest, he has also ceased from his own works" Hebrews 4:10. It means that you have stopped trying to be good enough and have come to the realization that Christ was good enough for you. If anyone will be saved in the judgment it will be because of the merits of Jesus Christ.

Absolutely, it is what catholics and calvinist DON'T teach and preach that is their downfall.

 

[Eagles Wings]

:doh:

:spam:

:deadhorse:



:stuck:

:nightall:

 

[TweetyBird]

This is a very important doctrine, yet it is not mentioned in the "Canons of Dort" nor is it mentioned in the 33 "Canons of the Council of Trent". There is some mention of having faith in Christ. But there is no mention of being found "In Christ".

The "In Christ" doctrine was a big part of what Paul taught, "And be found "IN CHRIST", not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

The reason that Calvinist, Catholics and others do not teach the "In Christ" doctrine is because they don't believe in it. In the Calvinist doctrine they are not saved by being "In Christ" they are saved by being predestinated. Even though there is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. Catholics apparently do not believe that they need to be "In Christ" simply because they don't teach it. If they don't teach it, its because they don't believe it.

For the Christian the "In Christ" doctrine is everything. It is his only hope. In the judgment if one is not found to be "In Christ" he will perish. God only accepts the righteousness of Christ. This is why Paul said, "Not having my own righteousness, which is of the law". If you enter in to the judgment with your own righteousness, which is of the law, you will perish.

What does it mean to be "In Christ?"

It means that you have ceased from your own works (religion) and you are resting in the works and the person of Jesus Christ for your salvation. Paul wrote, "For he that has enter into his rest, he has also ceased from his own works" Hebrews 4:10. It means that you have stopped trying to be good enough and have come to the realization that Christ was good enough for you. If anyone will be saved in the judgment it will be because of the merits of Jesus Christ.

Are you then disagreeing with what Calvin wrote? In other words, how is this not a doctrine about being "in Christ"?

["First, we must understand that as long as Christ remains outside of us, and we are separated from him, all that he has suffered and done for the salvation of the human race remains useless and of no value for us. Therefore, to share with us what he has received from the Father, he had to become ours and to dwell within us. For this reason, he is called “our Head” (Eph. 4.15), and “the first-born among many brethren” (Rom. 8.29). We also, in turn, are said to be “engrafted into him” (Rom. 11.17), and to “put on Christ” (Gal. 3.27); for, as I have said, all that he possesses is nothing to us until we grow into one body with him (Institutes, 3.1.1)."]

["We know, moreover, that he benefits only those whose “Head” he is (Eph. 4.15), for whom he is “the first-born among brethren” (Rom. 8.29), and who, finally, “have put on him” (Gal. 3.27). This union alone ensures that, as far as we are concerned, he has not unprofitably come with the name of Savior. The same purpose is served by that sacred wedlock through which we are made flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone (Eph. 5.30), and thus one with him. But he unites himself to us by the Spirit alone. By the grace and power of the same Spirit we are made his members, to keep us under himself and in turn to possess him (Institutes, 3.1.3)."]

["Although we may distinguish them, Christ contains both of them inseparably in himself. Do you wish, then, to attain righteousness in Christ? You must first possess Christ; but you cannot possess him without being made partaker in his sanctification, because he cannot be divided into pieces (1 Cor. 1:13). Since, therefore, it is solely by expending himself that the Lord gives us these benefits to enjoy, he bestows both of them at the same time, the one never without the other. Thus it is clear how true it is that we are justified not without works yet not through works, since in our sharing in Christ, which justifies us, sanctification is just as much included as righteousness (Institutes, 3.16.1)."]

["Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel. But like as those which call upon the name of the Lord are sure of salvation, so we must think that, without the same, we are thrice miserable and undone. And when as our salvation is placed in calling upon God, there is nothing in the mean season taken from faith, forasmuch as this invocation is grounded on faith alone. There is also another circumstance no less worthy the noting; in that the prophet doth signify, that the calling upon God doth properly appertain and agree unto the last days. For although he would be called upon in all ages, notwithstanding, since that he showed himself to be a Father in Christ, we have the more easy access unto him. Which thing ought both the more to embolden us, and to take from us all sluggishness. As he himself doth also reason, that by this privilege our forwardness to pray is doubled to us: “Hitherto have ye asked nothing in nay name; ask, and ye shall receive;” as if he should say, theretofore, although I did not yet appear to be a mediator and advocate in the faith, yet did ye pray; but now, when you shall have me to be your patron, with how much more courage ought ye to do that? (Calvin's Commentaries, Vol. 36: Acts, Part I,}"]

 

[patrick jane]

the calvinist god predestines people to hell with no chance of hearing and believing in Jesus.

 

[Nang]

the calvinist god predestines people to hell with no chance of hearing and believing in Jesus.

They are not innocent people, but unrepentant sinners who do not want to hear or believe in Jesus Christ.

The fact that God has shown mercy to any sinners at all, is purely evidence of His grace, alone.

 

[TweetyBird]

the calvinist god predestines people to hell with no chance of hearing and believing in Jesus.

Calvin:

[""Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel. "]

 

[Robert Pate]

Are you then disagreeing with what Calvin wrote? In other words, how is this not a doctrine about being "in Christ"?

["First, we must understand that as long as Christ remains outside of us, and we are separated from him, all that he has suffered and done for the salvation of the human race remains useless and of no value for us. Therefore, to share with us what he has received from the Father, he had to become ours and to dwell within us. For this reason, he is called “our Head” (Eph. 4.15), and “the first-born among many brethren” (Rom. 8.29). We also, in turn, are said to be “engrafted into him” (Rom. 11.17), and to “put on Christ” (Gal. 3.27); for, as I have said, all that he possesses is nothing to us until we grow into one body with him (Institutes, 3.1.1)."]

["We know, moreover, that he benefits only those whose “Head” he is (Eph. 4.15), for whom he is “the first-born among brethren” (Rom. 8.29), and who, finally, “have put on him” (Gal. 3.27). This union alone ensures that, as far as we are concerned, he has not unprofitably come with the name of Savior. The same purpose is served by that sacred wedlock through which we are made flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone (Eph. 5.30), and thus one with him. But he unites himself to us by the Spirit alone. By the grace and power of the same Spirit we are made his members, to keep us under himself and in turn to possess him (Institutes, 3.1.3)."]

["Although we may distinguish them, Christ contains both of them inseparably in himself. Do you wish, then, to attain righteousness in Christ? You must first possess Christ; but you cannot possess him without being made partaker in his sanctification, because he cannot be divided into pieces (1 Cor. 1:13). Since, therefore, it is solely by expending himself that the Lord gives us these benefits to enjoy, he bestows both of them at the same time, the one never without the other. Thus it is clear how true it is that we are justified not without works yet not through works, since in our sharing in Christ, which justifies us, sanctification is just as much included as righteousness (Institutes, 3.16.1)."]

["Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel. But like as those which call upon the name of the Lord are sure of salvation, so we must think that, without the same, we are thrice miserable and undone. And when as our salvation is placed in calling upon God, there is nothing in the mean season taken from faith, forasmuch as this invocation is grounded on faith alone. There is also another circumstance no less worthy the noting; in that the prophet doth signify, that the calling upon God doth properly appertain and agree unto the last days. For although he would be called upon in all ages, notwithstanding, since that he showed himself to be a Father in Christ, we have the more easy access unto him. Which thing ought both the more to embolden us, and to take from us all sluggishness. As he himself doth also reason, that by this privilege our forwardness to pray is doubled to us: “Hitherto have ye asked nothing in nay name; ask, and ye shall receive;” as if he should say, theretofore, although I did not yet appear to be a mediator and advocate in the faith, yet did ye pray; but now, when you shall have me to be your patron, with how much more courage ought ye to do that? (Calvin's Commentaries, Vol. 36: Acts, Part I,}"]

Putting on Christ is not the same as being "In Christ". John Calvin never taught that the Christian is "In Christ".

 

[Robert Pate]

Calvin:

[""Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel. "]

The gate of salvation are open to all men, but only those who are chosen can enter in. Which leads to the false doctrine of predestination.

 

[Robert Pate]

They are not innocent people, but unrepentant sinners who do not want to hear or believe in Jesus Christ.

The fact that God has shown mercy to any sinners at all, is purely evidence of His grace, alone.

Everyone is born after Adam, Romans 5:12.

Your Calvinist God condemns people to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam, which makes him unjust.

 

[TweetyBird]

Putting on Christ is not the same as being "In Christ". John Calvin never taught that the Christian is "In Christ".

He states in the quotes I provided.

["First, we must understand that as long as Christ remains outside of us, and we are separated from him, ... We also, in turn, are said to be “engrafted into him”... for, as I have said, all that he possesses is nothing to us until we grow into one body with him ..."]

["We know, moreover, that he benefits only those whose “Head” he is (Eph. 4.15), for whom he is “the first-born among brethren” (Rom. 8.29), and who, finally, “have put on him” (Gal. 3.27). This union alone ensures that, as far as we are concerned, he has not unprofitably come with the name of Savior. The same purpose is served by that sacred wedlock through which we are made flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone (Eph. 5.30), and thus one with him. But he unites himself to us by the Spirit alone. By the grace and power of the same Spirit we are made his members, to keep us under himself and in turn to possess him"] Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[musterion]

Calvin contradicted his own writings more than once.

 

[TweetyBird]

The gate of salvation are open to all men, but only those who are chosen can enter in. Which leads to the false doctrine of predestination.

According to Calvin:

["["Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel. But like as those which call upon the name of the Lord are sure of salvation, so we must think that, without the same, we are thrice miserable and undone. And when as our salvation is placed in calling upon God, there is nothing in the mean season taken from faith, forasmuch as this invocation is grounded on faith alone. There is also another circumstance no less worthy the noting; in that the prophet doth signify, that the calling upon God doth properly appertain and agree unto the last days. For although he would be called upon in all ages, notwithstanding, since that he showed himself to be a Father in Christ, we have the more easy access unto him. Which thing ought both the more to embolden us, and to take from us all sluggishness. As he himself doth also reason, that by this privilege our forwardness to pray is doubled to us: “Hitherto have ye asked nothing in nay name; ask, and ye shall receive;” as if he should say, theretofore, although I did not yet appear to be a mediator and advocate in the faith, yet did ye pray; but now, when you shall have me to be your patron, with how much more courage ought ye to do that? (Calvin's Commentaries, Vol. 36: Acts, Part I,}"]

 

[musterion]

Do you even read your own quotes? Here...

Calvin:
"Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel."

Meaning "the elect." Only. No one else. God doesn't "make himself manifest" to reprobates.

Calvin made the exact opposite point of what you apparently wanted him to make.

 

[Robert Pate]

According to Calvin:

["["Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel. But like as those which call upon the name of the Lord are sure of salvation, so we must think that, without the same, we are thrice miserable and undone. And when as our salvation is placed in calling upon God, there is nothing in the mean season taken from faith, forasmuch as this invocation is grounded on faith alone. There is also another circumstance no less worthy the noting; in that the prophet doth signify, that the calling upon God doth properly appertain and agree unto the last days. For although he would be called upon in all ages, notwithstanding, since that he showed himself to be a Father in Christ, we have the more easy access unto him. Which thing ought both the more to embolden us, and to take from us all sluggishness. As he himself doth also reason, that by this privilege our forwardness to pray is doubled to us: “Hitherto have ye asked nothing in nay name; ask, and ye shall receive;” as if he should say, theretofore, although I did not yet appear to be a mediator and advocate in the faith, yet did ye pray; but now, when you shall have me to be your patron, with how much more courage ought ye to do that? (Calvin's Commentaries, Vol. 36: Acts, Part I,}"]

Predestination makes God unjust. It is not humanly possible for anyone to have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam.

 

[TweetyBird]

Do you even read your own quotes? Here...

["Calvin:
"Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel." "]

Meaning "the elect." Only. No one else. God doesn't "make himself manifest" to reprobates.

Calvin made the exact opposite point of what you apparently wanted him to make.

I believe Calvin was quoting Jesus.

John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[TweetyBird]

Predestination makes God unjust. It is not humanly possible for anyone to have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam.

You never did clarify what you think Paul meant by "foreknow" and "predestine".

 

[patrick jane]

You never did clarify what you think Paul meant by "foreknow" and "predestine".

Jesus Christ is predestined, not people.

 

[musterion]

I believe Calvin was quoting Jesus.

John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Yet He wept over Jerusalem. If they didn't come (and as a nation they never did) that can only prove, by your logic, that God never drew them...if He had drawn them, they'd inexorably have come. They didn't, so while they had heard, they must not have been drawn.

:think:

Yet Christ wept over their REFUSING to come to Him...which they could only do if they were drawn by the Father...meaning He was lamenting, by your logic, the Father's will in NOT drawing them.

I'm sure you don't see the problem there.

 

[jamie]

...