Who is the True Church of Jesus Christ?

[Robert Pate]

The Catholic church is NOT the true church. We know this to be true because Catholics do not embrace the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Ask a Catholic what the Gospel is and they will say that it is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. That is not the Gospel that Paul received directly from Jesus Christ.

"But I certify you, brethren, that the Gospel which I preach is not of man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by direct revelation of Jesus Christ" Galatians 1:11, 12.

The true church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual church. There are no buildings or cathedrals, nor is there a paid staff. The true church of Jesus Christ is Composed of born again, blood bought believers in Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 1:18, 19. The true church of Jesus Christ is not a denomination, nor does it have a name. The only way that you can identify a member of "The True Church" of Jesus Christ is by their Spirit.

They believe that they are justified by faith, which means that they have been justified by Christ, Romans 3:26. Jesus Christ is their justifier, sanctifier and redeemer, 1 Corinthians 1:30. They have no confidence in the flesh (religion) Philippians 3:3. "Their faith is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness".

If the Catholic church is not the true church, then who is it? When John wrote the book of Revelation he wrote it to the seven churches in Asia, Revelation 1:4. There is no mention of a church in Rome. When Paul wrote the book of Romans he did not write it to a church in Rome, he wrote it to the believers in Rome, Romans 1:7. Then who is the Catholic church? John describes another church in Revelation 17:1-6, as the "Great Whore". Since there is no mention of a Catholic church in the book of Revelation we must conclude that the "Great Whore Church" is the Gospeless Catholic church.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

The Catholic church is NOT the true church. We know this to be true because Catholics do not embrace the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Ask a Catholic what the Gospel is and they will say that it is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. That is not the Gospel that Paul received directly from Jesus Christ.

"But I certify you, brethren, that the Gospel which I preach is not of man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by direct revelation of Jesus Christ" Galatians 1:11, 12.

The true church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual church. There are no buildings or cathedrals, nor is there a paid staff. The true church of Jesus Christ is Composed of born again, blood bought believers in Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 1:18, 19. The true church of Jesus Christ is not a denomination, nor does it have a name. The only way that you can identify a member of "The True Church" of Jesus Christ is by their Spirit.

They believe that they are justified by faith, which means that they have been justified by Christ, Romans 3:26. Jesus Christ is their justifier, sanctifier and redeemer, 1 Corinthians 1:30. They have no confidence in the flesh (religion) Philippians 3:3. "Their faith is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness".

If the Catholic church is not the true church, then who is it? When John wrote the book of Revelation he wrote it to the seven churches in Asia, Revelation 1:4. There is no mention of a church in Rome. When Paul wrote the book of Romans he did not write it to a church in Rome, he wrote it to the believers in Rome, Romans 1:7. Then who is the Catholic church? John describes another church in Revelation 17:1-6, as the "Great Whore". Since there is no mention of a Catholic church in the book of Revelation we must conclude that the "Great Whore Church" is the Gospeless Catholic church.

It has no building, but it is indeed a kingdom of stones built upon a very special Corner Stone. [emoji846][emoji854]


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[Ben Masada]

It has no building, but it is indeed a kingdom of stones built upon a very special Corner Stone.

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Jesus had no true churches; he was a Jew and Jews don't have churches. Jesus would attend in synagogues, not churches. Perhaps you meant which was the true church of Paul? (Acts 11:26)

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Jesus had no true churches; he was a Jew and Jews don't have churches. Jesus would attend in synagogues, not churches. Perhaps you meant which was the true church of Paul? (Acts 11:26)

The original church that was founded by Jesus was simply followers of Jesus. They met in homes. You can see this as Paul talks of "baptizing" households. [emoji106]


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Why households? They were being slaughtered by the droves.


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[Robert Pate]

Jesus had no true churches; he was a Jew and Jews don't have churches. Jesus would attend in synagogues, not churches. Perhaps you meant which was the true church of Paul? (Acts 11:26)

The first church consisted of Jesus and his disciples.

 

[Ben Masada]

The original church that was founded by Jesus was simply followers of Jesus. They met in homes. You can see this as Paul talks of "baptizing" households. [emoji106]

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What Jesus left behind when he passed away was the Sect of the Nazarenes organized by his Apostles. The Sect was Jewish as the main stream Judaism would acknowledge it as "the New Way" aka the youngest Jewish branch of Judaism at the time. (Acts 24:4)

 

[Ben Masada]

The original church that was founded by Jesus was simply followers of Jesus. They met in homes. You can see this as Paul talks of "baptizing" households. [emoji106]

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Jesus never founded a church; if you prove it, I'll become a Christian just as you are. The first Christian Church was founded by Paul in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

What Jesus left behind when he passed away was the Sect of the Nazarenes organized by his Apostles. The Sect was Jewish as the main stream Judaism would acknowledge it as "the New Way" aka the youngest Jewish branch of Judaism at the time. (Acts 24:4)

An Article on the Nazarenes and their Talmudic references

Hope of Israel Ministries (Ecclesia of YEHOVAH):

The Mysterious Relationship of

The Early Nazarene Christians and Rabbinic Judaism

During early New Testament times, the relationship between the Pharisees, Sadducees and Christians was often turbulent and deeply troubled. Matters grew even worse after the fall of the Temple in 70 A.D. Rabbinic Judaism, which rejected Yeshua as the Messiah, became increasingly hostile toward the Nazarene Christians. Rabbi Akiva even endorsed the renegade Bar Kochba as the "Messiah." Eventually, the rabbis even put a "curse" into the daily synagogue prayers, the amida, which directly cursed the nozri or Nazarenes and other similar minim or "heretics"! Here is the intriguing saga.

What were the earliest Christians called? Scripture tells us that early believers in the Messiah were first called "Christians"or "Messianics," as the Greek would imply -- at the Gentile city of Antioch -- and that appellation was a derogatory term given to them by the local unbelievers, not a name they chose for themselves (see Acts 11:26). The term was also used by king Agrippa when he listened to Paul's defense, and finally blurted out, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (Acts 26:28).

Regardless of the origin of the term, however, the apostle Peter later used it himself to describe the followers of the Messiah. He wrote, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God on this behalf" (I Pet. 4:16). The Greek word is Christianos, from the word Christos, meaning "Messiah," or "Anointed one."

However, in extant literature from that early time, including the Talmud, and early writings of the Church Fathers, such as Eusebius, and Origen, we find that the earliest Christians were commonly known among their Jewish neighbors and counterparts as "Nazarenes."

The Early "Nazarenes"

Actually, the name "Nazarene(s)" only occurs about a dozen times in Talmudic literature. In all but two of these instances it refers to "Yeshua the Nazarene." Half of these passages were censored in the Middle Ages, either by Christian censors or Jewish editors for fear of them. The censored passages were restored to the Talmud by R.N.N. Rabbinovicz from older MSS. From references to the early Nazarenes from various sources we have learned a number of vitally important things about them. For example, we have discovered that they:

1. Used both Old and New Testaments.
2. Believed in the resurrection of the dead.
3. Had a good knowledge of Hebrew and read the Old Testament and at least one gospel in that language.
4. Believed YEHOVAH God is the creator of all things.
5. Believed in one God (YEHOVAH) and His son Yeshua the Messiah.
6. Observed the Law of Moses.
7. Had a high respect for the writings of the apostle Paul.

Jerome, about 404 A.D., in a letter to Augustine, said, "They believe in Christ, the Son of God, born of Mary the Virgin, and they say about him that he suffered under Pontius Pilate and rose again." In the Nazarene commentary on Isaiah 29:17-21, they wrote against the Scribes and Pharisees that they "made men sin against the Word of God in order that they should deny that Christ was the Son of God" (see Ray A. Pritz, Nazarene Jewish Christianity: From the end of the New Testament Period until its disappearance in the Fourth Century, The Magnes Press, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, c.1992, p.35, 43, 53-54). In their commentary on Isaiah 31:6-9, they understand the passage as saying: "O sons of Israel, who deny the Son of God with such hurtful resolution."

Jerome also tells us that the Jewish Nazarenes, or followers of Yeshua of Nazareth -- Yeshu-Notzri -- were cursed in the synagogues "by the Pharisees," and that they mixed faith in the Messiah with the keeping of the Law (p. 55). In other words, they were true Christians! For Yeshua himself said he did not come to destroy or to do away with the Law (Matt. 5:17-19), and that one must keep the commandments if they hope to enter into eternal life (Matt. 19:17-19). Paul himself said that faith does not make "void" the Law, but rather "establishes it" (Romans 3:31).

Jerome also tells us that the Nazarenes must have been on generally good terms with the Jews during early times, because in the same letter to Augustine he indicates that they were to be found "in all the synagogues of the East among the Jews" (ibid.).

They indeed followed Jesus. They knew who He was, and Jesus is said to have studied with them before his ministry began. But this is historical conjecture. The Talmud even reveals that they believed on Jesus and the writings of Paul.




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[Ben Masada]

The first church consisted of Jesus and his disciples.

Again, Jesus congregated in Synagogues, not churches. Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. What you are doing is no different from pious forgery with the intent to add credibility to your Christian faith.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Who is the True Church of Jesus Christ?

Again, Jesus congregated in Synagogues, not churches. Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. What you are doing is no different from pious forgery with the intent to add credibility to your Christian faith.

What is the root of Nostrum in the Talmud, Ben?


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[Ben Masada]

An Article on the Nazarenes and their Talmudic references

Hope of Israel Ministries (Ecclesia of YEHOVAH):

The Mysterious Relationship of

The Early Nazarene Christians and Rabbinic Judaism

During early New Testament times, the relationship between the Pharisees, Sadducees and Christians was often turbulent and deeply troubled. Matters grew even worse after the fall of the Temple in 70 A.D. Rabbinic Judaism, which rejected Yeshua as the Messiah, became increasingly hostile toward the Nazarene Christians. Rabbi Akiva even endorsed the renegade Bar Kochba as the "Messiah." Eventually, the rabbis even put a "curse" into the daily synagogue prayers, the amida, which directly cursed the nozri or Nazarenes and other similar minim or "heretics"! Here is the intriguing saga.

What were the earliest Christians called? Scripture tells us that early believers in the Messiah were first called "Christians"or "Messianics," as the Greek would imply -- at the Gentile city of Antioch -- and that appellation was a derogatory term given to them by the local unbelievers, not a name they chose for themselves (see Acts 11:26). The term was also used by king Agrippa when he listened to Paul's defense, and finally blurted out, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (Acts 26:28).

Regardless of the origin of the term, however, the apostle Peter later used it himself to describe the followers of the Messiah. He wrote, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God on this behalf" (I Pet. 4:16). The Greek word is Christianos, from the word Christos, meaning "Messiah," or "Anointed one."

However, in extant literature from that early time, including the Talmud, and early writings of the Church Fathers, such as Eusebius, and Origen, we find that the earliest Christians were commonly known among their Jewish neighbors and counterparts as "Nazarenes."

The Early "Nazarenes"

Actually, the name "Nazarene(s)" only occurs about a dozen times in Talmudic literature. In all but two of these instances it refers to "Yeshua the Nazarene." Half of these passages were censored in the Middle Ages, either by Christian censors or Jewish editors for fear of them. The censored passages were restored to the Talmud by R.N.N. Rabbinovicz from older MSS. From references to the early Nazarenes from various sources we have learned a number of vitally important things about them. For example, we have discovered that they:

1. Used both Old and New Testaments.
2. Believed in the resurrection of the dead.
3. Had a good knowledge of Hebrew and read the Old Testament and at least one gospel in that language.
4. Believed YEHOVAH God is the creator of all things.
5. Believed in one God (YEHOVAH) and His son Yeshua the Messiah.
6. Observed the Law of Moses.
7. Had a high respect for the writings of the apostle Paul.

Jerome, about 404 A.D., in a letter to Augustine, said, "They believe in Christ, the Son of God, born of Mary the Virgin, and they say about him that he suffered under Pontius Pilate and rose again." In the Nazarene commentary on Isaiah 29:17-21, they wrote against the Scribes and Pharisees that they "made men sin against the Word of God in order that they should deny that Christ was the Son of God" (see Ray A. Pritz, Nazarene Jewish Christianity: From the end of the New Testament Period until its disappearance in the Fourth Century, The Magnes Press, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, c.1992, p.35, 43, 53-54). In their commentary on Isaiah 31:6-9, they understand the passage as saying: "O sons of Israel, who deny the Son of God with such hurtful resolution."

Jerome also tells us that the Jewish Nazarenes, or followers of Yeshua of Nazareth -- Yeshu-Notzri -- were cursed in the synagogues "by the Pharisees," and that they mixed faith in the Messiah with the keeping of the Law (p. 55). In other words, they were true Christians! For Yeshua himself said he did not come to destroy or to do away with the Law (Matt. 5:17-19), and that one must keep the commandments if they hope to enter into eternal life (Matt. 19:17-19). Paul himself said that faith does not make "void" the Law, but rather "establishes it" (Romans 3:31).

Jerome also tells us that the Nazarenes must have been on generally good terms with the Jews during early times, because in the same letter to Augustine he indicates that they were to be found "in all the synagogues of the East among the Jews" (ibid.).

They indeed followed Jesus. They knew who He was, and Jesus is said to have studied with them before his ministry began. But this is historical conjecture. The Talmud even reveals that they believed on Jesus and the writings of Paul.

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Nameless, no offense meant, and I could never offend you but, every thing in this post you have written above is not Jewish and I could almost say, it is "anti-Jewish." Your quote of Romans 3:31 is itself contradicted by Romans 7:6 when Paul said that he and his followers had been released from the Law; that Jesus had been the end of the Law, (Romans 10:5,6) That the Law had been abolished on the cross, (Ephesians 2:15) and many more of the kind of Replacement Theology.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why households? They were being slaughtered by the droves.

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"Why households?" Some of the Christians followers of Paul which he had made probably from peasants could not build a church for two reasons: No finances and no permission from the Jewish authorities because when Paul visited Jerusalem and tried to join the Apostles and was rejected out of fear of his former persecutions (Acts 9:26) he caused a havoc in Jerusalem preaching the idolatry that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God and that he had resurrected.(II Tim. 2:8; Acts 9:20)That's when he was banished back to Tarsus where he belonged. Then he wrote his letter to the Hebrews without his identity probably because nothing from Paul could be allowed to circulate in Jerusalem. Hence, the few Christians in Jerusalem would congregate in private houses. Probably Paul was afraid to endanger their lives if he identified himself in the Letter to the Hebrews.

 

[Ben Masada]

What is the root of Nostrum in the Talmud, Ben?

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I don't recall to have ever read that word in the Talmud but "Nostrum" brings two different meanings. First, the literature about a home-made medicine supposedly to be very effective to the point of miraculous effect. And second, a written text which, when mentioned as in prayer for the sick would cause the miracle. This was good for that time. Today, Science has caused it to become obsolete.

 

[RBBI]

Nameless, no offense meant, and I could never offend you but, every thing in this post you have written above is not Jewish and I could almost say, it is "anti-Jewish." Your quote of Romans 3:31 is itself contradicted by Romans 7:6 when Paul said that he and his followers had been released from the Law; that Jesus had been the end of the Law, (Romans 10:5,6) That the Law had been abolished on the cross, (Ephesians 2:15) and many more of the kind of Replacement Theology.

Personally, I believe that Paul was still a Jew and still observed the law, as he testified and proved. I think a spiritual understanding of what he said that you quoted is what is needed. That he had to mean it other than literal is revealed by his actions. A careful study of WHY they were first called Christians at Antioch is fruitful.

And so: the law is of none effect only when a man is dead. Paul said it is no longer I that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me. Dying to self is a type of death in itself. Yeshua therefore IS the end of the law in that sense since His Spirit is what makes this type of death possible.

This is no different in thought that the purpose of the law in the first place, ie. an exchange of what we want for what G-d has decreed, and this is made possible by the addition of His Spirit being made available to man. Which is no different than the priest's portion being G-d Himself.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Nameless, no offense meant, and I could never offend you but, every thing in this post you have written above is not Jewish and I could almost say, it is "anti-Jewish." Your quote of Romans 3:31 is itself contradicted by Romans 7:6 when Paul said that he and his followers had been released from the Law; that Jesus had been the end of the Law, (Romans 10:5,6) That the Law had been abolished on the cross, (Ephesians 2:15) and many more of the kind of Replacement Theology.

Fulfilled is Paul's true stance.

He explains that Jesus is now our Law of Love and direct teacher through His Indwelling Spirit.

We are now the Tabernacle of God, by His shed blood of atonement.

We are the Synagogue, and Temple of Solomon, as He is in our place, His glory now dwells in us.

Only Jesus was the TRUE Tabernacle, but because of Him, He is now our personal teacher.

We must let go of everything to gain anything.


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[Ben Masada]

Personally, I believe that Paul was still a Jew and still observed the law, as he testified and proved. I think a spiritual understanding of what he said that you quoted is what is needed. That he had to mean it other than literal is revealed by his actions. A careful study of WHY they were first called Christians at Antioch is fruitful.

And so: the law is of none effect only when a man is dead. Paul said it is no longer I that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me. Dying to self is a type of death in itself. Yeshua therefore IS the end of the law in that sense since His Spirit is what makes this type of death possible.

This is no different in thought that the purpose of the law in the first place, ie. an exchange of what we want for what G-d has decreed, and this is made possible by the addition of His Spirit being made available to man. Which is no different than the priest's portion being G-d Himself.

Paul ceased to be a Jew when he founded Christianity an anti-Jewish religion. A religion that has caused the loss of millions of Jews throughout History by means of pogroms, blood libel, Crusades, Inquisition and, last but not least, the Holocaust. I believe that Jesus foretold the sufferings of the Jews when he added the ten benedictions to his Sermon of the Mount. It is in Matthew 5:11. "Blessed are you when they persecute you and cause all forms of torture to you because of me."

 

[Ben Masada]

Fulfilled is Paul's true stance.

Yes, and to make sure we all did the same till Heavens and earth passed away was Jesus' stance.Mat.5:17-19

He explains that Jesus is now our Law of Love and direct teacher through His Indwelling Spirit.

Love does not need law to prove itself and the tortures Christians have caused the Jews throughout History through pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition and the Holocaust really prove how much they have learned from Jesus' love.

We are now the Tabernacle of God, by His shed blood of atonement.

We who, the Gentiles? Now, I wonder why Jesus would forbid his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles. That's in Matthew 10:5,6.

We are the Synagogue, and Temple of Solomon, as He is in our place, His glory now dwells in us.

How about the Synagogues of the Jews today throughout the world, are they part of the "we" you mention above?

Only Jesus was the TRUE Tabernacle, but because of Him, He is now our personal teacher.

I think you have forgotten that Jesus died and, he can no longer be any thing else but dead.(Eccles. 9:5,6)

We must let go of everything to gain anything.

Don't worry Nameless, eventually we will all leave everything.

 

[RBBI]

Paul ceased to be a Jew when he founded Christianity an anti-Jewish religion. A religion that has caused the loss of millions of Jews throughout History by means of pogroms, blood libel, Crusades, Inquisition and, last but not least, the Holocaust. I believe that Jesus foretold the sufferings of the Jews when he added the ten benedictions to his Sermon of the Mount. It is in Matthew 5:11. "Blessed are you when they persecute you and cause all forms of torture to you because of me."

Here's where I part company with a great many on both sides of the fence, and that's ok. I don't believe Paul founded the Christian church. Shocking as this will be to some, I don't think there was ever supposed to be a Christianity in the first place, not that it's development took G-d by surprise. How can there be a division if the gentiles were GRAFTED IN to what already existed?

This part is my own opinion after some careful digging, but I believe division came from the one who was bishop over Antioch, appointed after Paul's death, who was summarily named in a sense by John in Revelation via the "sins of the Nicolaitans", which Yeshua said he hates. Nicolas was the bishop to Antioch, a strongly pagan city known for it's loose morals and temple prostitutes. He was a recent Jewish convert who was from Antioch, which means he was a pagan from Antioch first. I believe it was he who began to teach error so as to include his own background and lusts, and THAT is why they were first called Christians at Antioch.

The early church format died off after the original apostles died, the Hellenists took over, and then finally the RCC and Constantine jumped on the ruins. I see this as a perfectly plausible explanation for how such a thriving body of Jewish believers who were to take in the grafted gentiles, ceased to exist combined with the obvious concerted efforts of many over the millennia to remove all the "Jewishness" from the texts. Just my two cents....

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Yes, and to make sure we all did the same till Heavens and earth passed away was Jesus' stance.Mat.5:17-19



Love does not need law to prove itself and the tortures Christians have caused the Jews throughout History through pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition and the Holocaust really prove how much they have learned from Jesus' love.



We who, the Gentiles? Now, I wonder why Jesus would forbid his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles. That's in Matthew 10:5,6.



How about the Synagogues of the Jews today throughout the world, are they part of the "we" you mention above?



I think you have forgotten that Jesus died and, he can no longer be any thing else but dead.(Eccles. 9:5,6)



Don't worry Nameless, eventually we will all leave everything.

Ben,

Jesus message of love has been dragged through the mud by human vanity.

As Israel bowed to the golden calf before Moses returned with the first Stones, so have many professed followers of Jesus forsaken His command to Love as He Loves.

Jesus abandons none.

His Love is eternal.

All who Love, could not do so without Him.

He is everywhere.

He is never in any building, but within the people in the buildings.

You will hear His voice in all words of Faith, Hope and Love.

But most importantly, Love.



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