The Berean
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This is a good starting point of course. But many people BELIEVE THE BIBLE and come to contradicting conclusions on beliefs and doctrine than you do. How do we decide who is correct? :think:
Who died on the cross? - a Hall of Fame thread.
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This is a good starting point of course. But many people BELIEVE THE BIBLE and come to contradicting conclusions on beliefs and doctrine than you do. How do we decide who is correct? :think:
Z Man
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Z Man
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Amen! :kookoo:
Z Man
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Study its history.
Agape4Robin
Member
The flaw would have to be the ones who are calling themselves believers. The Bible is Holy. Divine. We are sinners. Our perception is what is distorted. Our interpretation is the one subject to flaw. Not the Bible. Humans are likely to be contradictory by nature.
Gods Word is not.:nono:
Z Man
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Study its history and the Bible may not be as 'Divine' as you think...
Whoever can scream the loudest that the other side aren't really Christians.
SaulToPaul 2
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Newman
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Z Man, this is probably not a good place to interject with your off-topic opinions about the Bible. :think: While I do think that they do have a place somewhere (like the thread that you made), they do not belong in a thread on different positions about Jesus' involvement in his death.
Basically, if you have something to say about Jesus' death, please say it. But keep your opinions about the Bible in appropriate threads. :thumb:
Thanks,
Newman
Basically, if you have something to say about Jesus' death, please say it. But keep your opinions about the Bible in appropriate threads. :thumb:
Thanks,
Newman
Ask Mr. Religion
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No! It does not say “the man jesus Christ came in the flesh”. That is what you are saying and only you.
You are not reading my responses that have clearly shown you the error of your interpretation. As discussed here, in all but two verses written by Paul, the use of the word “flesh” does not mean a mere biological body. Did you read this?
All you are doing is making the same assertion while not providing any supporting biblical analysis.
Paul is discussing the contrast between the First and Second Adam, one who was a man, the other who was a man and the Lord, with respect to the resurrection of the saints. This verse is not a discussion of a pre-existent man, nor is it discussing the creational work that is recorded elsewhere (John 1:1; Colossians 1:15-18; Hebrews 1:2).
In 1 Cor. 15:21-22, the Apostle begins the contrast between the First and Second Adam:
“For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.”
“in Adam” – “in Christ”
Indicates the headships of Adam (humanity) and Christ (God’s people)
“all”
Appears after the two prepositional phrases, “in Adam”, “in Christ”, which from the Greek mean “in the sphere of Adam”, “in the sphere of Christ”. The scope of the adjective “all” is limited by the prepositional phrases, i.e., “all in Adam die”, “all in Christ will be made alive”
When Paul uses “man”, the word refers to the total humanity of these two persons as they each represent their own respective physical and spiritual offspring—Adam all of humanity, Christ the regenerated.
Adam
1. earthy (v. 40)
2. natural body (v. 45)
3. his nature passed on to his progeny
Christ, the Second Adam
1. prototypical spiritual body all who are His will assume at the Second Coming (see 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Cor. 2:15 and forward)
2. The “first fruits” (1 Cor. 15:23, 44, also Colossians 1:18 onward) are illustrating the harvest. The seed dies, the spiritual body appears.
Since John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible is in the public domain for anyone to download and read, and does a good job of interpreting verse 47, I cite the relevant section related to this below for you to carefully read:
{begin quote}
“The first man is of the earth, earthy,.... He was formed out of the earth, Gen. 2:7 and the word there used signifies red earth.
Josephus (c) observes, that the first man was called Adam, which in the Hebrew tongue signifies red, because he was made out of red earth; for such, adds he, is the true and virgin earth: Pausanias (d) makes mention of a clay, which is not the colour of earth, but like the sand of brooks and rivers; and gives a smell very near to that of the skin, or body of men; and which is said to be the remains of that clay, out of which all mankind was made:
but be that as it will, Adam was certainly made out of the earth, and had his habitation and abode assigned him in the garden of Eden, and was made to cultivate and till it; his lordship and dominion, at most and best, only extended to the terraqueous globe, and the creatures in it; and having sinned, he was not only thrust out of the garden to till the ground out of which he was taken, but doomed to return to the dust from whence he came; and whose sin and fall had such an influence on him and his posterity, as to make their souls sensual and earthly, to mind, affect, and cleave unto earthly things:
the second man is the Lord from heaven; as Adam was the first man, Christ is the second man; and these two are spoken of, as it they were the only two men in the world; because as the former {Adam} was the head and representative of all his natural posterity, so the latter {Christ} is the head and representative of all his spiritual offspring: and he is "the Lord from heaven"; in distinction from the first man, who was of the earth, and whose lordship reached only to the earth; whereas Christ is Lord of all, not only Lord of lords below, but Lord of angels and saints above; the whole family in heaven and in earth is named of him; and he has all power in heaven and in earth, and a name above every name in this world, and that to come, and is indeed higher than the heavens:
this is not to be understood of his human nature, or of his human body, as if that {a human body} came down from heaven, and passed through the virgin, as some heretics of old said, as water through a pipe; for though it was conceived and formed in a miraculous manner, under the overshadowing of the Holy Ghost from on high, yet was formed out of the matter and substance of the virgin, and so was of the earth; and was indeed an earthly body, supported by earthly means, and at last returned to the earth, and was interred in it: but it is to be understood either
(1) of Christ as a divine person, as the Son of God, as Lord of all, coming down from heaven at his incarnation; not by local motion, or change of place, but by assumption of the human nature into union with him, the Lord from heaven; or
(2) rather of him as he shall descend from heaven, as the Lord and Judge of all at the last day, when he will come in his glorious, spiritual, and heavenly body; and raise the righteous dead, and fashion their bodies like his own; when what follows will have its full accomplishment.”
{end quote – emphasis added}
Beloved57, no matter how many verses you find mentioning the “flesh” or “man”, they will not demonstrate the Son of God pre-existed as a man before His virgin birth.“The first man is of the earth, earthy,.... He was formed out of the earth, Gen. 2:7 and the word there used signifies red earth.
Josephus (c) observes, that the first man was called Adam, which in the Hebrew tongue signifies red, because he was made out of red earth; for such, adds he, is the true and virgin earth: Pausanias (d) makes mention of a clay, which is not the colour of earth, but like the sand of brooks and rivers; and gives a smell very near to that of the skin, or body of men; and which is said to be the remains of that clay, out of which all mankind was made:
but be that as it will, Adam was certainly made out of the earth, and had his habitation and abode assigned him in the garden of Eden, and was made to cultivate and till it; his lordship and dominion, at most and best, only extended to the terraqueous globe, and the creatures in it; and having sinned, he was not only thrust out of the garden to till the ground out of which he was taken, but doomed to return to the dust from whence he came; and whose sin and fall had such an influence on him and his posterity, as to make their souls sensual and earthly, to mind, affect, and cleave unto earthly things:
the second man is the Lord from heaven; as Adam was the first man, Christ is the second man; and these two are spoken of, as it they were the only two men in the world; because as the former {Adam} was the head and representative of all his natural posterity, so the latter {Christ} is the head and representative of all his spiritual offspring: and he is "the Lord from heaven"; in distinction from the first man, who was of the earth, and whose lordship reached only to the earth; whereas Christ is Lord of all, not only Lord of lords below, but Lord of angels and saints above; the whole family in heaven and in earth is named of him; and he has all power in heaven and in earth, and a name above every name in this world, and that to come, and is indeed higher than the heavens:
this is not to be understood of his human nature, or of his human body, as if that {a human body} came down from heaven, and passed through the virgin, as some heretics of old said, as water through a pipe; for though it was conceived and formed in a miraculous manner, under the overshadowing of the Holy Ghost from on high, yet was formed out of the matter and substance of the virgin, and so was of the earth; and was indeed an earthly body, supported by earthly means, and at last returned to the earth, and was interred in it: but it is to be understood either
(1) of Christ as a divine person, as the Son of God, as Lord of all, coming down from heaven at his incarnation; not by local motion, or change of place, but by assumption of the human nature into union with him, the Lord from heaven; or
(2) rather of him as he shall descend from heaven, as the Lord and Judge of all at the last day, when he will come in his glorious, spiritual, and heavenly body; and raise the righteous dead, and fashion their bodies like his own; when what follows will have its full accomplishment.”
{end quote – emphasis added}
Ask Mr. Religion
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You are doing it again and yet you wonder why things go badly for you? :sigh:
Newman
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(Not that I agree with beloved or disagree with you, but) Whay do you say/think about the different theophanies in the Bible?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Why be so tenuous? These are not matters of opinion, but matters of Scripture.
Theophanies were 'appearances' of God in various forms (in a fire, in a physical form, in visions, in dreams, as an "angel" of the LORD.
Every pseudo and genuine Christian cult or faith or true or false believer claims to just believe the Bible (superspiritual). It still comes down to accurate translation and interpretation of the Bible that is not helped by laziness and lack of due diligence.
Jim Jones just believed the Bible and killed almost 1000 people in Guyana.
JWs just believe the Bible, yet they twist it to their own destruction.
I think I was being sarcastic, not mocking.
I appreciate your heart, but not your dogmatism when you are potentially inaccurate on some points (as we all are).
Acts talks about God buying us with His own blood (affirms Deity of Christ), though there is some MSS dispute.
Acts 20:28
God's glory is enhanced, not compromised, by creating personal beings who are not robots. This comes at the expense of a risk free universe. God does not tightly control everything, a lesser glory for Creator and creature.
God does not succumb to man's will (straw man), but the fact that many go to hell shows that He does not always get His way in an individual's life (Lk. 7:30; Matthew 23:37).
Z Man
New member
What if it is God's will to send some people to hell? Ever thought about that one?
Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for his own purposes, even the wicked for punishment.
Romans 9:21-23
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory...
What if...
Spare me your hyper-Calvinistic proof texts that I dealt with many months ago... context, not proof text. Exegesis, not eisegesis.
Z Man
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Why does the idea of God creating people for hell bother you? The Scriptures proclaim it, why can't you?
Scripture declares the opposite. God does not desire or intend people to go to the place prepared for Satan and his demons. He is not willing that any perish. Men perish because they reject His perfect provision.
Your denial of any sense of free will and a distorted view of sovereignty (omnicausal/meticulous vs providential) leads to your impugning God's character and ways.
All those who believe are part of the elect. Those who persist in unbelief, despite God's influence to win them, perish. This is justice and love. Your view makes love and holiness arbitary and limited, contrary to revelation.
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