When is the Sabbath?

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

The current week on our Gregorian calendar continued without break from the previous Julian calendar from:
THURSDAY 4th October 1582
to FRIDAY 15th October 1582

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

However this calendar took hundreds of years to be accepted by other countries, England didn't accept the new Gregorian calendar till the 2nd September 1752:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...1752&country=9

The Julian calendar began on the 1st January 45BC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

However this calendar also took hundreds of years to be accepted by other countries and over the 1st to 3rd centuries AD, the Roman Empire gradually replaced it's old 8 day week ancient Roman calendar and all the other calendars within the empire with this new 7 day week Julian calendar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Now the 1st of January 1 AD was a SATURDAY:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1&country=9

This matches Torahcalendar.com:

http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y-1M10

Which would make the 1st of January 45 BC a FRIDAY:

http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y-46M10

But what was the day before? Because the Romans were previously using an 8 day week calendar before this date and the days were not called Monday, Tuesday etc (which are all names based on Roman gods), but instead the days were listed simply as; A, B, C, D, E, F, G, & H (8 Days):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Therefore how can the Roman Julian 7 day week calendar invented by the pagan Greek Mathematician Sosigenes in 45 BC over a 1000 miles away from Israel? have anything to do with the 7 day week the Jews and Israelites had been using for hundreds of years before this new 7 day week or even the Roman people's even existed?

The answer is the two 7 day week calendars are totally separate and therefore the Sabbath can not be calculated with our modern Julian/Gregorian calendar!

If you would like to know when the real Sabbath is then you can find here:

Articles:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Videos:

35 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

“Saturday is the Sabbath” is FAKE NEWS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJJwQmKJJbw&feature=youtu.be

15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):

International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls

79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):

Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU

 

[daqq]

The current week on our Gregorian calendar continued without break from the previous Julian calendar from:
THURSDAY 4th October 1582
to FRIDAY 15th October 1582

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

However this calendar took hundreds of years to be accepted by other countries, England didn't accept the new Gregorian calendar till the 2nd September 1752:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...1752&country=9

The Julian calendar began on the 1st January 45BC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

However this calendar also took hundreds of years to be accepted by other countries and over the 1st to 3rd centuries AD, the Roman Empire gradually replaced it's old
8 day week Roman calendar with this new 7 day week Julian calendar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Now the 1st of January 1 AD was a SATURDAY:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1&country=9

This matches Torahcalendar.com:

http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y-1M10

Which would make the 1st of January 45 BC a FRIDAY:

http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y-46M10

But what was the day before? Because the Romans were previously using an 8 day week calendar before this date and the days were not called Monday, Tuesday etc (which are all names based on Roman gods), but instead the days were listed simply as; A, B, C, D, E, F, G, & H (8 Days):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Therefore how can the Roman Julian 7 day week calendar invented by the pagan Greek Mathematician Sosigenes in 45 BC over a 1000 miles away from Israel? have anything to do with the 7 day week the Jews and Israelites had been using for hundreds of years before this new 7 day week began?

These two 7 day week calendars are totally separate!

If you would like to know when the real Sabbath is then you can find here:

Texts:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Videos:

The Creator's Calendar

9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzFGEfgP_8

15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):

International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls

79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):

Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU

Since you do not feel you can respond to me anymore because you say I may be insane, (for believing what the scripture actually says and teaches), I will drop off two of my forty-two-sense on this issue here in your first reply to this thread.

When is the Shabbat?

As the Master teaches: the seventh hour of the shabuim yamim, (re: Daniel 10:2-3).
John 4:6, John 4:21-22, John 4:23, John 4:52

Moreover the time of evening commences when "the women go out to draw water."
Genesis 24:11, John 4:7

So the commencement of evening time is therefore right about midday, somewhere roundabout the sixth hour, (John 4:6), when the sun has reached its apex in the sky overhead and begins its downward trek into the shades of the west.

 

[Jacob]

Shalom.

The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, beginning before or at sundown, and ending at or after sundown. Still, a day and a calendar day end with sundown.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, beginning before or at sundown, and ending at or after sundown. Still, a day and a calendar day end with sundown.

Shalom.

Jacob

Yes but the first Sabbath according the the Julian/Gregorian calendar that you are basing this on was on Friday 1st of January 45BC when this calendar began and the day before this was base on the ancient Roman calendar which used an 8 day week and each day was called; A, B, C, D, E, F, G, & H (8 Days):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Therefore how can the Roman Julian 7 day week invented by the pagan Greek Mathematician Sosigenes in 45 BC over a 1000 miles away from Israel? have anything to do with the 7 day week the Israelites had been using for hundreds of years before this date?

The answer is that the Roman 7 day week and the Israelite 7 day week are totally separate. If you would like to know when the real Sabbath is then you can find out by reading or watching any of these:

Texts:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.co...ding-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Videos:

The Creator's Calendar

9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzFGEfgP_8

15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):

International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls

79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):

Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU

 

[CherubRam]

In Israel

In Christ day there were two calendars in use, the biblical calendar of 364 days, where the festivals fall on the same day every year; and also the Lunar Calendar.

Which calendar do you think Christ and the disciples used?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

In Israel

In Christ day there were two calendars in use, the biblical calendar of 364 days, where the festivals fall on the same day every year; and also the Lunar Calendar.

Which calendar do you think Christ and the disciples used?

No there were hundreds of calendars in use around the world but Christ used the ancient Hebrew calendar as described by Moses and others in the Bible which was a lunar-solar calendar not fixed to the 365 day year. From 45BC the Roman's were trying to force the new Julian calendar on the Israelites but they kept rejecting and resisting it until 359 AD when they finally accepted it's new 7 day rolling week and incorporated that into the their new Jewish calendar made by Rabbi Hillel II which they still use to this day.

 

[daqq]

In Israel

In Christ day there were two calendars in use, the biblical calendar of 364 days, where the festivals fall on the same day every year; and also the Lunar Calendar.

Which calendar do you think Christ and the disciples used?

The Enochian calendar is three hundred and sixty-five days, (apparently not even the Qumran community fully understood it).

1 Enoch 81:2-6
2 And I observed the heavenly tablets, and read everything which is written thereon, and understood everything; and read the book of all the deeds of mankind, and of all the children of flesh that shall be upon the earth to the remotest generations.
3. And forthwith I blessed the Great Master, the King of Glory for ever, in that He has made all the works of the world: and I extolled the Master because of His patience and blessed Him because of the children of men.
4. And after that I said: Blessed is the man who dies in righteousness and goodness; concerning whom there is no book of unrighteousness written, and against whom no day of judgement shall be found.
5. And those seven holy ones brought me and placed me on the earth before the door of my house, and said to me: Declare everything to your son Methuselah, and show to all of your children that no flesh is righteous in the sight of the Master, for He is their Creator.
6. One year we will leave you with your son, until you have given your [final] commands, that you may teach your children and [make a] record for them, and testify to all of your children; and in the second year shall you be taken from their midst.

364+1 ("the day of judgment" which is intentionally omitted from the calendar in the book of the luminaries).

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, beginning before or at sundown, and ending at or after sundown. Still, a day and a calendar day end with sundown.

Shalom.

Jacob

No worries Jacob, most people I talk with over the internet can't get it straight away either, face to face is much easier as only about 5% of full communication can be done by the written word compared to face to face communication. Also I can use pencil and paper etc which helps.

Try to put yourself in the two situations, first the Israelites and how they had been using there own 7 day week from the time of Moses and before, then the Romans come along hundreds of years later with the new Julian calendar that has it's own 7 day week that is not synchronised to the Israelite's 7 day week. History records that the Israelites rejected the attempts by the Roman's to force this calendar, and it's different 7 day week, upon them. It wasn't till 359 AD (after about 400 years) that they finally accepted the new 7 day Roman week.

Now put your self in the Roman's place, they had been using a calendar, just in the province of Rome, for several hundred years leading up to 45BC and this ancient Roman calendar had an 8 day week, with days called A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days). Then along comes Julius Cesar, who with the help of the Greek Mathematician Sosigenes, creates a brand new calendar with a new 7 day week (Sunday to Monday). Then the Romans begin to force other countries in the Empire to use this is new 7 day week but this task takes about 400 years to get all the other countries to use it.

The two 7 day weeks of the ancient Israelite calendar and the modern Julian/Gregorian calendar are not synchronised, it is only a coincidence that they both have 7 day weeks and the evidence for all of this has been left to us in all the historical records, archaeology and the Bible itself. The OP gives links to this evidence.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

The Enochian calendar is three hundred and sixty-five days, (apparently not even the Qumran community fully understood it).

1 Enoch 81:2-6
2 And I observed the heavenly tablets, and read everything which is written thereon, and understood everything; and read the book of all the deeds of mankind, and of all the children of flesh that shall be upon the earth to the remotest generations.
3. And forthwith I blessed the Great Master, the King of Glory for ever, in that He has made all the works of the world: and I extolled the Master because of His patience and blessed Him because of the children of men.
4. And after that I said: Blessed is the man who dies in righteousness and goodness; concerning whom there is no book of unrighteousness written, and against whom no day of judgement shall be found.
5. And those seven holy ones brought me and placed me on the earth before the door of my house, and said to me: Declare everything to your son Methuselah, and show to all of your children that no flesh is righteous in the sight of the Master, for He is their Creator.
6. One year we will leave you with your son, until you have given your [final] commands, that you may teach your children and [make a] record for them, and testify to all of your children; and in the second year shall you be taken from their midst.

364+1 ("the day of judgment" which is intentionally omitted from the calendar in the book of the luminaries).

The calendar described in the book of Enoch is the Julian calendar and therefore shows that at least those portions of the book of Enoch, and possible the rest of it, had to have been written after 45 BC.

 

[Jacob]

No worries Jacob, most people I talk with over the internet can't get it straight away either, face to face is much easier as only about 5% of full communication can be done by the written word compared to face to face communication. Also I can use pencil and paper etc which helps.

Try to put yourself in the two situations, first the Israelites and how they had been using there own 7 day week from the time of Moses and before, then the Romans come along hundreds of years later with the new Julian calendar that has it's own 7 day week that is not synchronised to the Israelite's 7 day week. History records that the Israelites rejected the attempts by the Roman's to force this calendar, and it's different 7 day week, upon them. It wasn't till 359 AD (after about 400 years) that they finally accepted the new 7 day Roman week.

Now put your self in the Roman's place, they had been using a calendar, just in the province of Rome, for several hundred years leading up to 45BC and this ancient Roman calendar had an 8 day week, with days called A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days). Then along comes Julius Cesar, who with the help of the Greek Mathematician Sosigenes, creates a brand new calendar with a new 7 day week (Sunday to Monday). Then the Romans begin to force other countries in the Empire to use this is new 7 day week but this task takes about 400 years to get all the other countries to use it.

The two 7 day weeks of the ancient Israelite calendar and the modern Julian/Gregorian calendar are not synchronised, it is only a coincidence that they both have 7 day weeks and the evidence for all of this has been left to us in all the historical records, archaeology and the Bible itself. The OP gives links to this evidence.

I go by the Jewish Calendar. The days of the week are Rishon, Sheni, Shlishli, Revi'i, Chamishi, Shishi, Shabbat. Each day ends with sundown.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I go by the Jewish Calendar. The days of the week are Rishon, Sheni, Shlishli, Revi'i, Chamishi, Shishi, Shabbat. Each day ends with sundown.

Yes I know but what you are not reading and understanding is that the modern Jewish calendar you use was only created in 359AD and before this date the Jews and Christ used the ancient Hebrew calendar as described by Moses and others in the Bible which was a lunar-solar calendar not fixed to the 365 day year. From 45BC the Roman's had been trying to force the new Julian calendar on the Israelites but they kept rejecting and resisting it until 359 AD when they finally accepted it's new 7 day rolling week and incorporated that into the their new Jewish calendar made by Rabbi Hillel II which they (and you) still use to this day. Please try to read the evidence and understand it.

 

[Jacob]

Yes I know but what you are not reading and understanding is that the modern Jewish calendar you use was only created in 359AD and before this date the Jews and Christ used the ancient Hebrew calendar as described by Moses and others in the Bible which was a lunar-solar calendar not fixed to the 365 day year. From 45BC the Roman's had been trying to force the new Julian calendar on the Israelites but they kept rejecting and resisting it until 359 AD when they finally accepted it's new 7 day rolling week and incorporated that into the their new Jewish calendar made by Rabbi Hillel II which they (and you) still use to this day. Please try to read the evidence and understand it.

Shalom.

Today is Shishi, 9-6. Shishi means sixth. Today is the sixth day of the week. It is the ninth month, the sixth day of the month. I do not have a name for the ninth month going by the Torah, but I do have a calendar that I can go to that tells me when Rosh Chodesh, the Head of the Month, is.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

Today is Shishi, 9-6. Shishi means sixth. Today is the sixth day of the week. It is the ninth month, the sixth day of the month. I do not have a name for the ninth month going by the Torah, but I do have a calendar that I can go to that tells me when Rosh Chodesh, the Head of the Month, is.

Shalom.

Jacob

Yes it is the 6th of Kislev but on the ancient Hebrew calendar it means that the Sabbaths are on days 8, 15, 22 & 29 of each lunar month. Watch this:

The Creator's Calendar

9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzFGEfgP_8

 

[Jacob]

Yes it is the 6th of Kislev but on the ancient Hebrew calendar it means that the Sabbaths are on days 8, 15, 22 & 29 of each lunar month. Watch this:

The Creator's Calendar

9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzFGEfgP_8

I did not say Kislev. I do not agree with your calendar.

 

[daqq]

The calendar described in the book of Enoch is the Julian calendar and therefore shows that at least those portions of the book of Enoch, and possible the rest of it, had to have been written after 45 BC.

Nope. We have fragments from Cave 4 and Cave 7 at Qumran, (including fragments from the book of the luminaries), dating between 200 B.C.E. and 50 B.C.E. Here is an Aramaic sample of one, and please note that the estimated date range even says, "copied ca. 200-150 B.C.E.", which implies that an unknown original was even older: https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/scr3.html

Get your facts straight if you really want to be a watchman on the wall. :chuckle:

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I did not say Kislev. I do not agree with your calendar.

Mth Hebrew name Babylonian name

1 - Aviv - Nisan
2 - Ziv - Lyyar
3 - * - Sivan
4 - * - Tammuz
5 - * - Av
6 - * - Elul
7 - Ethanim- Tishri
8 - Bul - Heshvan
9 - * - Kislev
10 - * - Tevet
11 - * - Shevat
12 - * - Adar

Did you watch the video?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Nope. We have fragments from Cave 4 and Cave 7 at Qumran, (including fragments from the book of the luminaries), dating between 200 B.C.E. and 50 B.C.E. Here is an Aramaic sample of one, and please note that the estimated date range even says, "copied ca. 200-150 B.C.E.", which implies that an unknown original was even older: https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/scr3.html

Get your facts straight if you really want to be a watchman on the wall. :chuckle:

The fragment found does not contain any of the information relating to the calendar that is found in copies of the book of Enoch which all date long after 45BC.

 

[Jacob]

Mth Hebrew name Babylonian name

1 - Aviv - Nisan
2 - Ziv - Lyyar
3 - * - Sivan
4 - * - Tammuz
5 - * - Av
6 - * - Elul
7 - Ethanim- Tishri
8 - Bul - Heshvan
9 - * - Kislev
10 - * - Tevet
11 - * - Shevat
12 - * - Adar

Did you watch the video?

No.

You said Kislev again.

I am doing my daily Torah Study.

I already told you that I do not accept what you are saying.

One place you admitted to me that each week has the Sabbath on the seventh day. That day follows today. It begins at candle lighting time.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[daqq]

The fragment found does not contain any of the information relating to the calendar that is found in copies of the book of Enoch which all date long after 45BC.

That was one of the larger fragments as an example or sample, as was said, and was posted simply to show a sample of the general range of the dating. You are now being openly dishonest to protect your calendar machinations. There are fragments containing portions of the book of the luminaries from Qumran which are clearly older than what you claim; but since you have now been informed, it is not my job to do the rest of your research into the matter for you. You will believe what you want to believe because it suits your paradigm and, as said to you previously, your paradigm is clearly your king. Not much of a watchman if you ask me: for you only watch out to make sure no one refutes your imaginative and false calendar which you have already claimed to be "God's Calendar", (lol).

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

No.

You said Kislev again.

I am doing my daily Torah Study.

I already told you that I do not accept what you are saying.

One place you admitted to me that each week has the Sabbath on the seventh day. That day follows today. It begins at candle lighting time.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob unless you engage in the debate by looking at the material presented to you I cannot debate with you and sadder than that you cannot learn anything new.