ECT When in history did this take place?
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
Interplanner
Well-known member
Many indicators in Zech 14 show that they are about the final judgement, not a separate event just for Israel, in Israel. I started a thread on v5, because there was no way to discuss it without the day without night, which is in the NHNE.
musterion
Well-known member
So it hasn't happened yet.
Interplanner
Well-known member
No, and you should not be trying to find just one 'test' of Scripture and base all you believe on that test.
It could have taken place right after the DoJ but the Father has delayed the final judgement. The NHNE hasn't happened yet, although you could say the new creation has manifested in Christ because of Gal 6 and 2 Cor 5.
It could have taken place right after the DoJ but the Father has delayed the final judgement. The NHNE hasn't happened yet, although you could say the new creation has manifested in Christ because of Gal 6 and 2 Cor 5.
God's Truth
New member
All special days were about Jesus. The special days are prophetic about Jesus.
It was a teaching tool, a shadow of Jesus Christ.
Observing special days has been fulfilled by Jesus.
He fulfilled those special days when he came.
Observing special days is now worthless when it comes to salvation.
What matters is observing Jesus all day every day,as we live through him and he through us.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
When did the LORD defend Jerusalem from it's enemies at his coming?
Wick Stick
Well-known member
Where is that prophesied?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Zechariah 14.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
Oh, I see the problem. It's a translation thing in that chapter.
On the Day of the Lord, the Lord doesn't fight for Israel, He fights against Israel. But most of the translations make it seem the other way in verse 3.
On the Day of the Lord, the Lord doesn't fight for Israel, He fights against Israel. But most of the translations make it seem the other way in verse 3.
Yes and no.
Acts 4:. And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
In the above "the people" refers to Israel - and there, specifically to Unbelieving Israel.
While who cited that about those Gentiles and those Unbelieving Israelites, there, in Acts 4, and those whom he cited that to, were Believing Israelites.
Meaning the war with the nations includes Unbelieving Israel and is on behalf of Israel's Believing Remnant, see the latter half of Matt. 10; and about the middle of Luke 21.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
You're going to earn that gold star today, aren't you? Unfortunately, you're not right.
The Day of the Lord is a recurring thing in Scripture, and it is always, always, always about God executing vengeance and destruction on Israel. Not saving them.
Ezekiel 30:3 For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Verse 1 makes it clearer...
Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
He wasn't talking to the heathen. It is Israel that is spoiled. Do you think that on the Day of the Lord, the Lord is going to stand by and watch Israel get spoiled, before showing up late for the fight? God is on the winning team, and on the Day of the Lord, that is the heathen side.
Verse 3 should say:
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight among those nations...
...not against them.
Nope - the wrath is ever against both the Gentile and Unbelieving Israel on behalf of the Believing Remnant of Israel.
Exactly what the latter half of Matt. 10, and the middle of Luke 21 also depict.
Wrath towards those two towards redemption of that third group.
Even in Zachariah 14, the wrath is against those first two, and on behalf of the third, or...Jerusalem.
Who do you think the need to endure unto the end is addressed to - to the Believing Remnant of Israel, Rev. 3.
This is ever the constant throughout the Scripture.
Now, about that gold star :chuckle:
musterion
Well-known member
Demonstrate that those translations have it wrong.
musterion
Well-known member
You mean like approaching Scripture on the presumption that most everything has already been fulfilled and has already taken place, then reconstructing Scripture according to that paradigm? No, that can't be what you mean. That would be a stupid thing to do.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
Can't do it. "Against" is a plausible reading. It's just not the only plausible reading.
The preposition, whether "against" or "among," is based on a single-letter prefix in Hebrew - a prefixed B. The prefix can be translated a lot of different ways, but its primary meaning is "inside" and it doesn't really carry nuance of the sort we're talking about here.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
Interplanner
Well-known member
"what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment" Lk 22:37.
Whatever God has promised is Yes! and Amen! in Christ. 2 Cor 1.
What God promised the fathers is fulfilled in raising Jesus from the dead. Act 13.
You are your own enemy. There are obvious things that are already expressed as fulfilled in Christ, and he is the living temple and our passover lamb etc etc etc ad multitudinum. But the final judgement of the world has not taken place.
I don't what your reading problem is, but after 2 years of saying this very clearly, I don't see the problem. It is not unreasonable, it is not as extreme as you think. Nothing is reconstructed, however, a future in the land of Israel is not added back, and that unnerves you. Too bad.
I also notice that when the NT interp of fav chapter Zech 14 THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING is presented, that you have nothing to say. Is that true? I found the chapter to have so many connections to the NHNE, that it becomes very clear that it was expected right after the DofJ. That the whole NT mentality was the the world would end in that generation. We'll have to use our guided imagination here, because there are no NT passages saying what to expect after the DofJ and the final judgement right after it.
musterion
Well-known member
So the usual translations don't have it demonstrably wrong, you just disagree with them.