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JudgeRightly

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1 yep had a beginning

Which means it has a cause.

2 other than the result of chemistry and physics, how do you have a thought? thinking takes place in the brain—

Explain the correlation, please. Explain how thought, something that is not physical, is brought about by an electrical signal, something physical.

3 human beings developed the laws
of logic. where else did they come
from?

Laws are discovered, not developed.

If there was never any laws governing logic, then there never would be. Such laws would be, by definition, arbitrary.

If you disagree, please explain how non-physical laws arose from something that is supposed to be purely physical.
 

Clete

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Which means it has a cause.



Explain the correlation, please. Explain how thought, something that is not physical, is brought about by an electrical signal, something physical.



Laws are discovered, not developed.

If there was never any laws governing logic, then there never would be. Such laws would be, by definition, arbitrary.

If you disagree, please explain how non-physical laws arose from something that is supposed to be purely physical.
His problem runs deeper than this.

If thought is purely a physical process, then it is a deterministic one, meaning that the outcomes of chemical reactions are entirely governed by the specific conditions present at the time they occur. At any given moment, there can be only one set of conditions, and, therefore, only one possible outcome. Each thought would simply be one more result in an endless chain of determined biochemical reactions, including the very thought that concludes, "Thoughts are nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain."

In other words, the atheist, by his own reasoning, does not choose to believe in naturalism, nor can he know whether the path his brain followed to reach that conclusion had anything to do with logic because his worldview denies that thoughts are lead from thought to thought by logic or reason. According to naturalism, thinking isn't about meaning, understanding, wisdom, or any kind of rational skill, it’s just blind, mindless chemistry with outcomes determined not by any sort of philosophy, but by the laws of physics.
 

Avajs

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Which means it has a cause.



Explain the correlation, please. Explain how thought, something that is not physical, is brought about by an electrical signal, something physical.



Laws are discovered, not developed.

If there was never any laws governing logic, then there never would be. Such laws would be, by definition, arbitrary.

If you disagree, please explain how non-physical laws arose from something that is supposed to be purely physical.
Are there specific laws of logic? If so, what are they?
 

JudgeRightly

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Are there specific laws of logic? If so, what are they?

You're still avoiding the point.

It doesn't matter what the laws of logic are.

The very fact that logic exists at all and has rules precludes any kind of methodological naturalism, because logic cannot come about naturally.

The fact that the universe has a beginning means it has a cause.

What is it then aside from chemistry and physics?

Something other than what is physical, yet still very real, which cannot be explained with methodological naturalism.
 

Clete

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What is it rhen aside from chemistry and physics?
Do you understand what it means to falsify the contrary?

That might seem like an odd, even esoteric question, but it is a real question that you really do need to answer, for yourself if not for any other reason.

If only A or B is true and A is falsified then B is necessarily true.

Can you not see that?

The supernatural is either real or it is not. Put another way, either "supernaturalism" is true or naturalism is true. It cannot be both, nor can it be neither. The two are mutually exclusive. It IS one or it IS the other. Thus, if naturalism is falsified, which has been demonstrated here without even any attempted refutation, then the supernatural exists and your worldview is falsified.

More specifically, and in direct relation to this latest exchange, if logic and reason cannot be the product of naturalism then it must have a super-natural source. There is no other alternative. That which is not natural is super-natural, by definition.

Thus, the direct answer to the question, "What is it (i.e. logic and reason) then aside from chemistry and physics?" is...
"Logic and reason are not merely the products of chemistry and physics, because they deal with the validity of thoughts—not just the occurrence of thoughts. Chemical reactions may explain why a thought happens in the brain, but they cannot account for whether that thought is true. Logic is the ground by which we distinguish valid inference from invalid, and reason is our capacity to recognize and follow that ground.​
If all our thoughts were simply the result of material processes—blind physical causes—then we would have no reason to trust them as accurate or truthful. The act of reasoning requires that we step outside the flow of physical causation and evaluate arguments on the basis of their logical connection, not just their natural history.​
Therefore, logic and reason are something more than physics and chemistry; they belong to the realm of the rational, not merely the physical. If Naturalism were true, it would undermine the very reasoning by which it is believed." - C.S. Lewis - Miracles chapter 3​
You might respond, "Logic and reason are something more than physics and chemistry? Something more, like what?"

Indeed, that may well already be what it is you're asking, but if so, then I would respond by saying that you already know my answer! You know, but won't admit to yourself, that I not only have an answer but that my answer makes sense; that my answer is rationally consistent with the whole of my worldview.

But that isn't your line of thought! Your line of thought is that there is no answer and you're projecting! You have no answer and think that I (we) don't either!

The answer to your question is that our reasoning faculty; our ability to think, to know, to understand, and to distinguish truth from error, is the part of us that was created in the image of THE Logos (i.e. God!).

What's more is that this isn't just my answer, it is THE answer; the only possible answer. It MUST be true, just as surely as 2 + 2 must equal 4. It cannot be otherwise and as such, you are without excuse because the truth has been shown to you. (Romans 1:20-21)
 
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