Undoing Eternal Life

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Human life is susceptible to death; viz: human life is a kind of life that's very easy to undo.

Eternal life is quite a bit different than human life. It's impervious to death; hence eternal life is impossible to undo. If that were not true, it would be possible to assassinate God.

There's quite a number of verses in the New Testament promising eternal life to Jesus' believing followers; and some of those verses are in the grammatical present tense; for example:

● John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

● John 6:54 . . Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life

Here's three more-- again, note the grammatical tense; it's present, indicating that Jesus' believing followers have eternal life right now-- no delay and no waiting period.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

● John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

● 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I suggest ceasing to quarrel about "losing your salvation" and instead concentrate on obtaining your eternal life because eternal life can't be lost seeing as how it's impervious to death.

● John 10:27-28 . . My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not under any condition.

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themuzicman

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It's eternal, but not unconditional.

Col 1:21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
 
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Q: If Jesus' believing followers have eternal life, then why do they still die just like everybody else?

A: Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a physical kind of life that has to do with a superhuman body impervious to age, death, and putrefaction.

Eternal life, on the other hand, isn't a physical kind of life; it's a spirit kind of life; which is why it's possible for people to obtain eternal life before they obtain immortality.

For example: according to John 5:26-27 and 1John 1:1-2 Christ had eternal life when he was here. However, according to Rom 6:9 he didn't obtain immortality until his resurrection.

The same holds true for Christ's believing followers. According to Rom 8:23- 25 and 1Cor 15:35-54, they too won't obtain immortality until their resurrections.

So then, eternal life has zero to do with the longevity of a human body. That's something else altogether.

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Eternal life is immune to the consequences of sin.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

● Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

● Rom 8:1-2 . .Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Eternal life is really good news for dishonesty.

● Rev 21:8 . . All liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

I'd be willing to bet a tank of regular gas that there isn't one person on this forum who doesn't lie now and then. In point of fact, I read an article somewhere that dishonesty is not only a very common activity, but even necessary just to get by in the world we live in.

There is an amazing number of ways that humanity practices dishonesty. Wikipedia lists no less than 31.

● Ps 58:3 . . Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.

What an interesting observation. It's as much as saying that if infants could speak, they'd not be totally honest; viz: children have to be taught manners, but they don't have to be taught dishonesty; that comes natural to them.

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There's a scene at Rev 20:11-15 depicting the resurrection of the dead from several different locations. The dead are mentioned four times, while the living aren't mentioned even once and that's because Christ gave his word at John 5:24 that the living never have to worry about being put on trial for things they've done that are hell-worthy.

In other words; none of the dead will go to heaven from the great white throne event: instead they will all every one lose their resurrected bodies by a manner of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

Q: Why are apparently sentient, conscious people called dead?

A: Christ said at John 5:24 that people with eternal life have crossed over from death into life; which of course means that prior to obtaining eternal life, they were dead on the hoof; viz: the dead in Rev 20:11-15 won't have eternal life; instead, they'll all have natural-born human life; which is kind of life not allowed in the eternal city. (Rev 21:27)

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themuzicman

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WeberHome said:
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Eternal life is immune to the consequences of sin.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

● Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

● Rom 8:1-2 . .Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Eternal life is really good news for dishonesty.

● Rev 21:8 . . All liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

I'd be willing to bet a tank of regular gas that there isn't one person on this forum who doesn't lie now and then. In point of fact, I read an article somewhere that dishonesty is not only a very common activity, but even necessary just to get by in the world we live in.

There is an amazing number of ways that humanity practices dishonesty. Wikipedia lists no less than 31.

● Ps 58:3 . . Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.

What an interesting observation. It's as much as saying that if infants could speak, they'd not be totally honest; viz: children have to be taught manners, but they don't have to be taught dishonesty; that comes natural to them.

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But is eternal life unconditional?

Col 1:21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard...

Paul seems to indicate that it is conditional.
 
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themuzicman said:
Had Adam not sinned, would have have lived eternally?
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Adam didn't have eternal life; in point of fact, he didn't even have immortality. Adam had creature life, with is an inferior kind of life that can only be sustained indefinitely by fortifying it's diet with nourishment from the tree of life.

In point of fact, in order to carry out Adam's death sentence, God had only to deny him access to the tree and let nature take its course.

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WeberHome

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themuzicman said:

But is eternal life unconditional?

Col 1:21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard...

Paul seems to indicate that it is conditional.
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Note the word "never" in Christ's statement.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not under any condition.

Here it is again:

● John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,

FYI: Eternal life is impervious to death. If that were not true, it would be possible to assassinate God; viz: not even God can kill eternal life. So then, people who have eternal life as per Christ's statements can't lose it because in order for them to lose their eternal life, it would be necessary to abort the living thing that was born in them as per John 3:3-8; which of course is impossible.

So then, obviously Col 1:21-23 isn't talking about eternal life; rather, it's talking about conduct becoming. In other words; it's Christ's wishes to be proud of his sheep. But even if they fail to "continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" they'll not be culled from the herd; they'll just be wayward.

You know; if you were the Devil; I'd scold you for trying to mislead the Lord's sheep; but I rather suspect you just don't know any better.

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themuzicman

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WeberHome said:
]Adam didn't have eternal life; in point of fact, he didn't even have immortality. Adam had creature life, with is an inferior kind of life that can only be sustained indefinitely by fortifying it's diet with nourishment from the tree of life.

In point of fact, in order to carry out Adam's death sentence, God had only to deny him access to the tree and let nature take its course.
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Ah, but had Adam not sinned, would he have live eternally?
 
themuzicman

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WeberHome said:
Note the word "never" in Christ's statement.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not under any condition.

Here it is again:

● John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,

FYI: Eternal life is impervious to death. If that were not true, it would be possible to assassinate God; viz: not even God can kill eternal life. So then, people who have eternal life as per Christ's statements can't lose it because in order for them to lose their eternal life, it would be necessary to abort the living thing that was born in them as per John 3:3-8; which of course is impossible.

So then, obviously Col 1:21-23 isn't talking about eternal life; rather, it's talking about conduct becoming. In other words; it's Christ's wishes to be proud of his sheep. But even if they fail to "continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" they'll not be culled from the herd; they'll just be wayward.

You know; if you were the Devil; I'd scold you for trying to mislead the Lord's sheep; but I rather suspect you just don't know any better.

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Refuting Scripture with Scripture, and then assuming your theology to change the meaning of Scripture?

LOL..

Nice try.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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No. Adam did not have eternal life. He died. He had to eat from the tree of life. He choose the law instead.
 
themuzicman

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WeberHome said:
See post #12

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Adam didn't have eternal life; in point of fact, he didn't even have immortality. Adam had creature life, with is an inferior kind of life that can only be sustained indefinitely by fortifying it's diet with nourishment from the tree of life.
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We don't have immortality, yet, either. We still have to die.

So, your argument, here, is invalid.
 
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● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of The Lord.

● 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

Just for the fun of it a few years ago, I toured the New Testament beginning with Acts and found more than 400 of the commandments that Paul spoke of in the two passages above.

The really big difference between Christ's commandments and those found in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy is that the old law contains covenanted curses for non compliance, while Christ's law contains no covenanted curses for non compliance. So of the two laws, I'd say that Christ's is easily the more accommodating: no contest.

An important point to note in regards to Christ's law is that it's not for every John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer calling themselves Christians. Christ's law is for Christ's sheep; about whom he says have eternal life (John 5:21, John 10:27-28). So then pew warmers lacking eternal life need not concern themselves with complying with the commandments that Paul spoke of.

Another point to note is that according to God's testimony, as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to Christianity, people lacking eternal life are also lacking His son; in other words; Christians lacking eternal life are quite christless.

● 1John 5:11-12 . . This is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life; and whosoever does not have this life, does not have His son.

I should think that it goes without saying that christless Christians are in grave danger of the sum of all fears.

● Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

FYI: People who refuse to believe that 1John 5:11-12 means what it says are insinuating that God is a person of questionable integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth.

● 1John 5:10 . . Anyone who does not believe God has made Him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about His son.

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