Turn the Russia narrative on its head

ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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The narrative or at least a sub narrative is that Russia interfered in our election and therefore Trump is not a legitimate president.

This assumes that if there were no Russian interference, Hillary would have won. Where is the scientific data of actual voters where is gives an approximation of how much the wiki leaks stories played a part in voting? I don't even think accurate data could be found on such a topic.

Let's say we got a glimpse into people's minds and found out that the wiki leaks stories increased Hillary voter turnout. Also, we find, wikileaks suppressed Trump voter turnout.

Let's take it a step further. Suppose Hillary actually won. Suppose we have proof of Russian involvement in wikileaks with hard evidence.

Now......Should Hillary resign and allow for a new election?

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ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
ClimateSanity said:
Suppose Hillary actually won.
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R

rexlunae

New member
It isn't the Russian effort that would delegitimize Trump. It would be the participation of the Trump campaign in undermining the elections.

Free and fair elections are essential to our consitutional republic. Without them, there is no legitimate consent to be governed. And without that consent, there is no republic. It is, therefore, essential that all political parties commit sincerely to free and fair elections, no matter who wins.
 
DavidK

DavidK

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ClimateSanity said:
The narrative or at least a sub narrative is that Russia interfered in our election and therefore Trump is not a legitimate president.
Click to expand...

Where are you seeing this narrative?

All of the analysis I've read or heard in supposedly liberal bastions like the NYT or NPR is that there was definitely Russian attempts at interference but that it probably didn't significantly change the outcome of the election.

The point of finding out if the Trump campaign colluded isn't to say, "Hillary should have been elected." It's to find out whether members of the Trump campaign committed the potentially treasonous act of enlisting a foreign power to help Trump get elected. It doesn't matter a bit whether the meddling was effective or not.
 
quip

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ClimateSanity said:
Let's take it a step further. Suppose Hillary actually won. Suppose we have proof of Russian involvement in wikileaks with hard evidence.

Now......Should Hillary resign and allow for a new election?
Click to expand...

No doubt the right would call for such...or impeachment.

Should the current opposite not be the case?
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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rexlunae said:
It isn't the Russian effort that would delegitimize Trump. It would be the participation of the Trump campaign in undermining the elections.
Click to expand...

But that's exactly what they said at the beginning of this insane notion. They were saying that Trump should resign because 17 intelligence officials said they had evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC and have the data to wiki leaks for disimmination.

There was no suggestion much less evidence Trump was helping the Russians.

It was on all the media. How did you miss it?

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ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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rexlunae said:
Free and fair elections are essential to our consitutional republic. Without them, there is no legitimate consent to be governed. And without that consent, there is no republic. It is, therefore, essential that all political parties commit sincerely to free and fair elections, no matter who wins.
Click to expand...
The election was free and fair. Elections should have the most information available....not limit it, regardless of source.

If a foreign government tries to interfere by way of information, it doesn't make the election unfair because the offended party has nothing stopping them from defending themselves from whatever attack is brought forth.


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ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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DavidK said:
Where are you seeing this narrative?

All of the analysis I've read or heard in supposedly liberal bastions like the NYT or NPR is that there was definitely Russian attempts at interference but that it probably didn't significantly change the outcome of the election.

The point of finding out if the Trump campaign colluded isn't to say, "Hillary should have been elected." It's to find out whether members of the Trump campaign committed the potentially treasonous act of enlisting a foreign power to help Trump get elected. It doesn't matter a bit whether the meddling was effective or not.
Click to expand...

It was out there in the early days when the 17 intelligence agencies said the DNC was hacked. There were several people who were brought onto these news shows and said Trump should step down. It was part two of the same package. Part one is that he didn't win the popular vote.

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ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2017...wer-violates-spirit-law-further-investigated/


This puts the whole Trump/ Russia collusion narrative in its proper place.....the trash.

It also shows how our intelligence agencies should never be trusted again until someone removes the last minute changes Obama put in place just so more leaking could be made possible and make new laws making it hard for the executive branch ever to do monkey business with intelligence agencies through executive orders.

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DavidK

DavidK

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ClimateSanity said:
It was out there in the early days when the 17 intelligence agencies said the DNC was hacked. There were several people who were brought onto these news shows and said Trump should step down. It was part two of the same package. Part one is that he didn't win the popular vote.

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Click to expand...

I guess I don't consume the right news sources, then.
 
R

rexlunae

New member
ClimateSanity said:
The election was free and fair. Elections should have the most information available....not limit it, regardless of source.

If a foreign government tries to interfere by way of information, it doesn't make the election unfair because the offended party has nothing stopping them from defending themselves from whatever attack is brought forth.


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Click to expand...

Your man Trump claimed that the election was rigged, even after he won. And if his team worked to undermine the election by breaking the law, then it wasn't fair.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
rexlunae said:
Your man Trump claimed that the election was rigged, even after he won. And if his team worked to undermine the election by breaking the law, then it wasn't fair.
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If...if...if...if....that's all you guys have in all this madness.

So we must launch an investigation Everytime some butt hurt loser with a vivid imagination comes up with a possible "IF" scenario?

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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
rexlunae said:
Free and fair elections are essential to our consitutional republic.
Click to expand...

Did you support Obama when he sent his team over to Israel in an attempt to defeat Netanyahu?

Of course whoever was responsible for the WikiLeaks in the Presidential elections in the USA would have been totally impotent to have any effect on that election if Hillary did not have so many shameful secrets which were exposed.

The Democrats do not want to take the blame for choosing such an inept candidate so they blame their defeat on Russia.
 
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