toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

IMJerusha

IMJerusha

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Lighthouse said:
I'm not saying He did. This is an example of not understanding what is plainly there.

The vine produces the fruit, the branches merely bear it; and any branch that does not is not truly on the vine, thus it is cut off.

But He did change the commands.
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Actually, what is not as plain as you seem to see is Yeshua stating the branches were never truly there to begin with. I was not aware that we could put words in Yeshua's mouth. Oh, we can't!.....for that is called adding to God's word!
 
IMJerusha

IMJerusha

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godrulz said:
Are you an ethnic Jew who speaks Hebrew? If not, what is with Gentiles sounding superspiritual using in-house Messianic lingo (like evangelicals are inferior for not using Adonai, etc.?).
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Brother, I place no inferiority upon your shoulders by my words. Walk your path in peace. I consider myself no better and no worse than you.
 
IMJerusha

IMJerusha

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godrulz said:
Are you ethnic Jew or just Gentile wanting to be Messianic?
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I am a Gentile, to the best of my knowledge, who has been called to the faith expression of Messianic Judaism. Are you a Christian as I am or an accuser of the Body? My use of the Greek or the Hebrew shouldn't affect you one way or the other. TMPOV, anyone who believes in Yeshua is Messianic.
 
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Nick M

Nick M

Born that men no longer die
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Throwback said:
Paul clarified who his audience was in the first 7 verses and clearly, they were believers who "belonged to the Christ.
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Israel and the circumcision belong to Christ. That doesn't change that Paul was revealing the dispensation of grace given to him for them.

Romans 1

15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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glorydaz said:
Showing someone your good works doesn't save you,
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Right.




it only shows those looking on your faith is not false.
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Wrong.

A Buddhist (which has a false faith) can do the same good works as you.


Sometimes I do good works, and sometimes I do bad works.
That does not show that sometimes I have a true faith, and sometimes I have a false faith.
My faith is the same at all times.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
glorydaz said:
We are saved when we BELIEVE....period, end of story.
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Do you teach that people that were saved when they believed are now able to commit murder and adultery without losing their salvation?

Or do you teach that people that were saved when they believed, who then commit murder and adultery, had a false conversion experience, so have to do it again to get it right?
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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godrulz said:
How would I know the date you became Mormon? The most brilliant people in the world cannot know something they do not have immediate access to.

I guess you are not Mormon. I missed the start of this game you two are playing.
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He has trolled me for months with lurid insults about my being Calvinist, I have pointed out that not only have I never read Calvin but I am at variance with him on some very important doctrines..he will follow it up with ever more lurid insults about my Calvinism...you my dear William above all TOLers will know how that is calculated to infuriate.

I do not regard per se being mistaken for a Calvinist an insult, they are a joy.

Grosnick is mean spirited. And for all that is said about john w, and I have been called a witch, Tabitha, Dora the explora and I wot not what else :eek: [I still dig him] but at least he is not sneaky and downright underhand.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Right.




Wrong.

A Buddhist (which has a false faith) can do the same good works as you.


Sometimes I do good works, and sometimes I do bad works.
That does not show that sometimes I have a true faith, and sometimes I have a false faith.
My faith is the same at all times.
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I wasn't talking about you, Tam. I was talking about what James was saying. He was talking about hypocrites that claim a faith they do not have. He was not saying faith and works were necessary for salvation.

If you see someone hungry and feed them, then your faith would be seen or proven true. If you see someone hungry and say have a nice day and go on your way, then your claimed faith would be seen or proven false. James 2:15-16



The man standing there with bloody hands after cutting off the head of that soldier, claiming a faith in Allah, would be showing his faith was a dead faith by his very works. Could that man's faith save him?

James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 Timothy 5:24-25
Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after. Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.



James talks about the poor being rich in faith...heirs of the kingdom to them that LOVE HIM. He mentions no works there. He carries that through the chapter and only speaks of works in how they prove someone's faith...whether it be true of not.

James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
IMJerusha said:
Actually, what is not as plain as you seem to see is Yeshua stating the branches were never truly there to begin with. I was not aware that we could put words in Yeshua's mouth. Oh, we can't!.....for that is called adding to God's word!
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Lighthouse added nothing. He said you didn't understand what was plainly there, and you don't. You quote that text without even knowing what it means.


You really do think too highly of yourself, IMJerusha, and you show it every single time you post. :nono:
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
The scriptures teaches that faithfulness pleases God and He rewards faithfulness with eternal life.
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No. He rewards us, but not with eternal life. Eternal life is a GIFT. You're confusing our rewards with salvation.

There is a crown of life given to those who are faithful unto death...that's called the martyr's crown for they offered their very lives for the faith.

Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

There is a crown of righteousness for those who love His appearing.

2 Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

There is also a crown of glory for those who feed the flock in ministry. There is the incorruptible crown for those who faithfully run the race, who crucify every selfish desire in the flesh and point men to Jesus. There is the crown of rejoicing called the soul-winners crown. All those rewards He brings with Him.


There are also rewards in this life for faithful service, but eternal life is not a reward for our service. It's a gift of God given to those who trust JESUS and HIS WORK on the cross. A gift is not EARNED, it's freely given to those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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You cannot even BEGIN to think about service or fruits of the Spirit until salvation is secured, if our service is not the Lord working in us it is no use.


Salvation and discipleship are clear different issues.
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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godrulz said:
I was playing along. I had no reason to think he was Mormon, but don't know why the other poster was throwing that out (I never believed it, but was jesting along).

Maybe if you read my other proximal post you would see that I said he was not Mormon. You quote me like you quote the Bible...out of context/eisegesis.
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At least she quotes the Bible.

*not that I agree she quotes it out of context

IMJerusha said:
Actually, what is not as plain as you seem to see is Yeshua stating the branches were never truly there to begin with. I was not aware that we could put words in Yeshua's mouth. Oh, we can't!.....for that is called adding to God's word!
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That's not what I said.

You fail to understand that Jesus is speaking of Israel, who, as a nation, was automatically in the vine [God]; Joshua [the real English form of His name] cut off those who rejected Him, and the reason they rejected Him is because they were not truly attached to God apart from as a matter of being born as one of the elect [Israel].

It really isn't my fault you can't understand that a metaphor is, by definition, imperfect as an illustration of reality.

Also, you are referencing a time before the cross: when no one was saved, therefore cutting people off meant cutting them off from the promise of salvation, not removing them from present salvation.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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genuineoriginal said:
The scriptures teaches that faithfulness pleases God and He rewards faithfulness with eternal life.
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Our faith needs to be aimed at Him, not our good works/deeds!
The indwelling Holy Spirit creates the works, good deeds, and fruit!
Our good works/deeds do not help us hold onto our salvation/
eternal life, God holds onto us!
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Hall of Fame
Totton Linnet said:
He has trolled me for months with lurid insults about my being Calvinist, I have pointed out that not only have I never read Calvin but I am at variance with him on some very important doctrines..he will follow it up with ever more lurid insults about my Calvinism...you my dear William above all TOLers will know how that is calculated to infuriate.

I do not regard per se being mistaken for a Calvinist an insult, they are a joy.

Grosnick is mean spirited. And for all that is said about john w, and I have been called a witch, Tabitha, Dora the explora and I wot not what else :eek: [I still dig him] but at least he is not sneaky and downright underhand.
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Please show us, where I trolled you? You come to me or
we just happen to be on the same thread! JW is still a nasty type
of guy, who is disrespectful of women and inarticulate when
producing his posts! By the way, how are ya? You also have
Calvinist views! Place me on ignore and have done with it!
I'm not going to, trail after you, I've better things to do! You're
not my focus!
 
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